trans-vaginal ultrasound for no medical reason - Virginia, anti-choice

[MitchieInge]

(and other states I think) is there a thread about this already?

So people on here are pro rape victims having to have transvaginal scans, by law? If they want an abortion.

Yes my whole posting on this thread has been about pinning raped women down and drs forcing them to have procedures against their will or knowledge of why..........

FFS

I cannot have a discussion with someone who is hysterical and irrational. Good night

But don't you see, that if a rape victim asks for an abortion, and is told she must have a trans-vaginal scan in order to have one, means that she says she doesn't want an abortion any more...

Then that is a result for the people bringing in this legislation? They will see that as a life saved, a baby rescued, whatever it is these people say.

WHY are people insisting that this is a kindly act, working out of concern for women, to protect them from evil HCPs who want to exploit them and provide them with inappropriate procedures?

You have missed the point entirely. HCPs are generally, as you can see from this thread, in favour of scanning, in order that the appropriate approach can be offered to the woman.

In the NHS they would find another way. This is law so they cannot find another way.

The desperation to find reasonable motivations behind this legislation is just really baffling me.

And YOU are missing the point that this will not be a case of HCPs being able to exercise their professional competence and discretion over what diagnostic procedures are necessary and when.

It is a case that all females who want an abortion, for whatever reason, and under whatever circumstances, will have to have a certain diagnostic procedure carried out. This one single diagnostic procedure. There is nothing in there about taking her history, how to proceed if she has had a history of severe pregnancy complications, how to proceed if she is in a state of trauma, nothing else. Just this one thing. How that doesn't ring alarm bells for people, I don't get it.

TT, not necessary.

That is what that Bill means, though, isn't it? If a heartbeat has to be detected by law and that isn't possible via an abdominal scan, that a TV scan would have to be performed. Otherwise, no abortion.

"In the NHS they would find another way."

What other way would they find?

"If a heartbeat has to be detected by law and that isn't possible via an abdominal scan, that a TV scan would have to be performed."

If a heartbeat cant be detected on an abdominal scan then its possible that there isn't an on-going pregnancy, or that the pregnancy is not in the uterus but somewhere harder to visualise on an abdominal scan. How can it be justified to have a potentially un-needed medical procedure on that basis.

"So people on here are pro rape victims having to have transvaginal scans, by law? If they want an abortion."

Talk about hysterically twisting things. Shame I thought we could have had a good discussion on this. I'd heard bad things about the feminist board, can see why now.

Well I'm not a doctor, obviously.

But if a rape victim didn't want a TV scan, they would find another way. In the UK, they would find another way. There must be other means of finding out gestation - hormone levels, other types of scans. they wouldn't say do it or have the baby. They just wouldn't.

Also in some situations they will know when intercourse had taken place, from police or medical records.

Well I'm not a doctor, obviously.

But if a rape victim didn't want a TV scan, they would find another way. In the UK, they would find another way.

How can you be so sure of that if you dont know what that way would be?

I'd appreciate it if people didn't fight me. I am simply exploring my way through this, researching and posting links and info etc.

i think realistically it's probably right that the only way would be to come back later when an abdominal scan could be conclusive. the difference being that would be free here but would mean shelling out a whole load more money there. and quite possibly a very long journey.

i think we all are aye.

i also think that everyone on here is prochoice and against banning abortion which means we're on the same side.

Well I'm not a doctor, obviously.

But if a rape victim didn't want a TV scan, they would find another way. In the UK, they would find another way.

How can you be so sure of that if you dont know what that way would be?

Well I did suggest 2

But further than that I'd say maybe

hormone levels
patient history
police records
cat scan
mri scan
palpating might do it

I don't think that a 13 yo rape victim would have to undergo a TV scan in the UK to get an abortion. I can't imagine that at all. Really I can't.

How many people on this thread have even had a TV scan, I wonder?

Read up. This law would make it compulsory for women who had already had a scan elsewhere to have another scan right before the abortion. In a country where they will have to pay for that second scan, adding several hundred dollars to the cost of the abortion. Does that sound sensible?

The law would require a woman 'without her consent, to receive an ultrasound and give her ?an opportunity to view the ultrasound image of her fetus prior to the abortion"' Even when her doctor considered it medically unneccesary.

Does that sound like it's motivated by medical concerns?

Or does it sound like a precursor to this:

In Texas, a U.S. federal judge recently upheld a part of the law that would also require providers to describe and/or show a woman images of her fetus and require her to listen to the fetal heartbeat. The same law currently exists in North Carolina and Oklahoma, but is not being enforced

i have. dworkin has. don't know about anyone else.

saf I had to have tv scans with my second pg as they couldn't get a look using the usual method. I am not sure that coming back later will work for all women.

both prior to a d&c following miscarriage. hope i got it right, pretty sure it was dworkin who said she'd been through the same experience, apologies if i've muddled names.

I get the sense that people think I am going off on one

I am going off on one though. I am sick of this shit coming out of the states and I don't know what I can do to help with it and I am terrified that it is coming over here.

You probably would have got further with a non-misleading thread title.

Sorry, thats not fair, you were not the OP. Apologies

Oh saf it was the thing that they put a condom on the TV probe thingy. That's what they do at my hosp anyway. That bit made it more invasive than a smear somehow.