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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Do fathers have adequate contact rights under current law?

13 replies

STIDW · 11/02/2012 20:30

www.guardian.co.uk/law/poll/2012/feb/06/fathers-access-rights-divorce-poll

OP posts:
betternextlife · 11/02/2012 23:10

I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I know it is if both parents have parental responsibility then fathers have as many legal rights as mothers.

The primary carer usually gets residence and according to the Justice ministries own research over 75% of non-resident parents were awarded contact.

So if fathers did more of the primary care role, they would be much more likely to get residence.......

Birdsgottafly · 12/02/2012 02:12

I personally think that the law is weighted against fathers, both in private situations and by SS.

I know of plenty of fathers who have to fight other female relatives for residency, in ways that the mothers wouldn't.

I know that more fathers than mothers are happy to walk away and see their children as something that should fit in with their life, but that shouldn't influence decision making.

You only have to read AIBU to notice that a good few mothers see the baby as theirs and want tomake all of the decisions, especially when it comes to the fathers family having contact, whereas they are happy toand the baby over to their mum.

StewieGriffinsMom · 12/02/2012 07:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sunshineandbooks · 12/02/2012 11:34

I think we need to be clear what we're talking about here. This is being presented as father's rights, whereas to date it has been the child's right to relationship with both parents. Where are the equivalent mother's rights?

Presently the mother has all the responsibility. This may appear as having the 'upper hand' as far as the father is concerned, but legally that's not the case at all.

If we're talking about parental rights, rather than child welfare, where is the mother's right to be able to rely on the other parent taking equal responsibility?

Paying child maintenance is the one that immediately springs to mind, but as a working single parent, I know that the responsibility and the cost of arranging childcare around a job was 100% my responsibility, while my X has the benefit of childcare on tap with no costs whatsoever. I'm the one who takes off time for sick children, doctor's appointment, etc. My career path has been permanently altered and continues to be restricted, whereas his is unfettered. There is no acknowledgement of this - in fact single parents are told, in the main, to 'suck it up'. They are disparaged daily in the national press, the government takes little account of the childcare difficulties faced them and has cut back financial support for it. And at the same time single parents are labelled with thinly veiled disguise as responsible for the moral breakdown of society.

Coming back to maintenance, 60% of single parents who do not use the CSA receive nothing. Half of those using the CSA pay £5 or less. We treat parking fines more seriously than non-payment of maintenance in this country. Charging for the CSA will mean even more single parents taking 100% of the burden financially since it's a 'get out of jail' card for many non-resident parents. This is being done at the exact same time the government is positing plans to give greater rights to fathers. Hmm

THere should be no plans to increase father's rights until equal measures are taken to ensure maintenance is paid, since the numbers not getting maintenance are far outweighed by the number of father's desperately trying to get contact with their children and being denied.

But coming back to child contact. What's going on here exactly? How many mothers denying contact are doing it with 'no good reason'?

I've met loads of women whose partners have taken them down the legal route for contact - then failed to take it up once they've won it. Why are they doing that? It's because it's about control rather than a desire to genuinely spend time with the child. THe mothers know this, which is why they fight it. To the outside world and the professionals, it appears as though the woman is obstructive, but the truth is she's trying to protect her child from being used as a pawn in a game.

Domestic violence is much more prevalent among single parents - it features as a reason for relationship breakdown in about a third of cases. Yet because the vast majority of it is unreported and therefore unprovable, it is discounted. Since DV is a feature in 75% of child abuse cases, and research shows a significantly increased risk of a child being abused if one of the parents is abusive, I'd say DV is a damn good reason to prevent contact or at least insist on it being restricted or supervised. But if it can't be proven, the resident parent is accused of lying, making 'spurious claims' or being 'intractably hostile'.

Some women stop contact because contact was being abused by the father - letting down and disappointing the child and used as a weapon to mess up the resident parent's life. Some men who claim their Xs won't allow contact, really mean : I want to be able to see my children, whenever I want to, with no notice, to pop into the mother's house because I'm passing, to change plans if I get a better offer or even fail to turn up completely if something else comes up and I forget that an extremely excited child is waiting on me.

When you have a child, your priorities change. If they don't, something is a bit amiss. I don't think anywhere near enough significance is given to this. One of the reasons mothers feel that the father's involvement is undesirable is not because they no longer love the father and therefore want him to conveniently disappear. It's because they recognise that juvenile, irresponsible behaviour is no longer appropriate when a child is around. Often it is the father's refusal to accept that and to change that results in the relationship breaking down in the first place. Most mothers love their children passionately and may be preventing/restricting contact to protect their children, not to 'spite' their Xs. I'm not saying that's right, but I think a greater understanding of this dynamic would help and possibly avoid protracted court battles.

Resident parents can be reassured that poor parenting doesn't necessarily mean damaging or abusive and is worth putting up with because of the positive benefits associated with the child maintaining a relationship with the other parent. However, in the main, a very clear message need to be sent to those wanting contact - if you feel the need to take your child to the pub/play 18-rated games/drop them off with the grandparents/be hungover/sit in front of the telly/bring your new girlfriend of 4 weeks along/not turn up for contact/alter it without goodreason - on the exclusive day you have the opportunity to spend time with your child, then clearly you have not understood what contact is about - the child's right to a relationship with the non-resident parent. Those sorts of behaviours do not develop a relationship and so I'd question whether it's worth continuing. I'd like to see contact withdrawn when parents abuse it. I've seen too many children devastated by being let down by daddy yet again. Research conducted in the last few years has demonstrated that unreliable and uninvolved contact is almost as damaging as no contact at all.

This is a gendered issue because 92% of single parents are women. However, male single parents face very similar problems to the female ones when it comes to contact and maintenance, which shows that this behaviour doesn't happen because of biology. This isn' about hating men but addressing a cultural imbalance that devalues caring for a child, which is mainly done by women.

I don't deny that some women deny contact out of spite. Women are not saints and they share the same spectrum of behaviour as men. However, in the vast majority of cases, I believe women have a good reason for denying contact, even though it may not be a correct one (e.g. worries about the standard of care provided by the NRP).

So, by all means enshrine the father's right to contact in law. But ONLY if maintenance is made compulsory for all and properly punished if it isn't paid, cut off contact for NRPs who mess about with it, and introduce automatic supervised contact only for parents with a history of DV.

BasilRathbone · 12/02/2012 12:49

Great post as ever Sunshine.

This has all been discussed ad nauseum here

This is all about giving NRP's rights without responsibilities AFAIC. I just can't be arsed to go through all the arguments again and anyway Sunshine has articulated them perfectly.

StewieGriffinsMom · 12/02/2012 14:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

flippinada · 12/02/2012 16:10

At the risk of sounding like a persistent echo, great post sunshine :).

sunshineandbooks · 12/02/2012 18:41

Thanks. Smile Now I just need to find a way to get someone in a position of power to listen to it. My MP and Maria Miller never even bothered to reply to my letter about introducing charges for the CSA. Hmm

STIDW · 12/02/2012 20:03

sunshineandbooks, just heard on the grapevine the Government has cut the charge from £100 to £20.

OP posts:
BasilRathbone · 12/02/2012 20:22

But they're not charging NRP's are they, they're charging RP's.

And I wonder if they're still intending to take a cut of the maintenance.

JosephineB · 13/02/2012 13:18

I wonder if they're still intending to take a cut of the maintenance

Yes they are - but this will be put out to consultation and debated in parliament before being implemented. Last I heard, they were thinking of taking 12% as a 'collection charge'.

Victims of domestic violence will be exempt from the £20 application charge but not the collection charge. There is currently heated lobbying going on on with regards to what the Government will accept as 'proof' of domestic violence (a bit like the changes to legal aid where although the Government claim that domestic violence victims will still get it, they will have to offer independent evidence of their abuse which women's groups think will exclude around 90-95% of victims from getting legal aid in the future).

Random fact of the day: Not paying child maintenance is a criminal offence in Argentina.

PamBeesly · 13/02/2012 17:05

Brilliant post sunshine

STIDW · 15/02/2012 15:00

As far as I'm aware there are no plans to give fathers specific rights. The interim Family Justice Review suggested something along the lines that a clause be added to the Children Act 1989 to give children the right to a meaningful relationship with both parents. However, the OXFLAP Family Policy Briefing "Would Legislation for Shared Parenting Time Help Children? (2011) written by Belinda Fehlberg and Bruce Smyth raised concerns about "meaningful relationship" taking priority over the welfare of children This paper also makes the point that although most separated parents struggle with making arrangements for children only a small proportion of cases reach the courts and they often have other underlying problems which explains why they can?t reach agreement in the first place

The final FJR recommended dropping the "meaningful relationship" clause because it was thought that there would be delays in cases as there would be legal debate about the definition of "meaningful relationship." At this point there was a plethora of misleading and inflammatory media coverage claiming that the FJR refused to recognise that fathers should have equal parenting rights following parental separation. Of course this is nonsense, Parental Responsibility already gives both parents equal responsibility and rights to carry out those responsibilities. When parents cannot agree it is open to either of them to apply to court for an order to regulate PR.

In the response to the FJR the Government said the key principle remains that the welfare of children is the paramount consideration. It was agreed that the terminology of "contact" and "residence" are associated with notions of winning and losing and should be abolished in private cases so the emphasis is on child centred arrangements. Strengthening the importance of a good understanding of PR was accepted. It was said "no legislation should be introduced that risks or risks creating that there is a parental right to substantial or equal time for both parents."

The Government then went on to say it believed there should be "a legislative statement of the importance of children having an ongoing relationship with both parents after family separation, where it is safe and in the child's best interests." There is already a de facto presumption that children have a right to contact as long as it is safe so there is unlikely to be any real change.

Apparently the poll in the link in my first post was 62% thought that fathers had enough "access" rights until the fathers rights people got wind of the poll.

As far as child maintenance is concerned I don't think it is just PWCs who will be paying charges. My understanding is that under the proposed reforms the applicant pays so, for example, if a maintenance agreement is included in a consent order settling the finances on divorce the NRP would need to pay the fee if they wanted to apply to the CSA after a year after the order was made. There is then an ongoing charge of between 7-12% paid by parents when the CSA collects child maintenance on their behalf and a 15-20% charge added to the NRP's payment. Perhaps to avoid the charges that will at least result in more divorcing couples agreeing child maintenance in a financial order and sticking with it.

The other thing that no one seems to be picking up on is that when child care is shared 50:50 there is to be no CM. Although that sounds fair given that CB and tax credits in certain circumstances will be shared and women with dependent children tend to earn less than men with dependent children a number of women even if they want or need shared care 50:50 will find it untenable.

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