Can I have a bit of a hand here please?

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

I decribe myself as a feminist. I am not as politically aware as most of the posters here and I am not an activist. I am working class and in my mid 40s. I bought my girl up (till I lost her) to understand that women are equal and I bring my boys up the same.

I know this has probably been done before so apolgies if its a bit of a bore.....

Got a letter home from DS's school last week addressed to Mr & Mrs A DeVere (A being OH's initial).
It really, properly annoyed me. I checked myself to see if I was being a bit OTT but no, it genuinely angers me.
Now I know I took his surname when we married but TBH it was a pragmatic reason. My surname was unusual and attracted a lot of negative attention and piss taking. I was glad to be rid of it. I really dont think I would have made the change if I had a nice/normal name.

But to have my given name ignored and to be included as a sort of appendage to my OH enrages me. I feel all clenched up about it.

I put a note on the letter and sent it back explaining that I preferred NOT to be addressed by my husbands intial. I thought nothing more of it.

Got a letter back to day totally missing the point and expaining to me that all letters are addressed to both resident parents

I have no objection to that ffs. Of course my son's dad should be included. I just dont want to be an add on with no name.

I am not jumping up and down and threatening to burn the school down but I have to admit to feeling really pissed off. Is it just me? Some friends are a bit meh others agree with me.

WHY do they do it?

Thanks for wading though that stream of consciousness.

OhDoAdmitMrsD - are you going on the Million Women Rise March on 3 March (I think).

Dont know about it.

I will have a look and get back to you.

Its in my diary now.

MrsDeVere, you asked up thread what if it were a same sex relationship.

I am in a same sex relationship. At first dd's school used to address everything to Ms Squirrel and Ms Fox. Lately I have been deleted and stuff has been coming addressed just to Ms Fox.

I presume this is because dd has the same surname as dp and some bright spark decided to 'correct' the database.

indeed.

I'm not a 100% sure on this but isn't the title "Mrs" a shortened way of saying "Mistress of"? In which case it is technically correct to say Mrs A DeVere because it means "Mistress of A... DeVere". You are not the Mistress of B...DeVere but of A...DeVere.

I completely agree with you that it takes away the last element of your own identity when addressing you, and its a total anachronism, but really the problem lies with the title "Mrs".

This is why I much prefer use of the title 'Ms' because it does not make irrelevant reference to marital status. I use the title Ms Pengwin anyway because I am married, hence 'Miss' would be wrong, and I cannot use Mrs Pengwin because it is my original name not my husband's name.

Ms., Mrs. And Miss. are all 17th centuary abbreviations of Misstress. You can legally use whichever you please regardless of the surname you use.

If the school claims they are addressing letters to all resident parents then this is what they should do. At the moment they are addrssing the letters to Mr A. Devere and his wife (whoever that happens to be at the moment).

pengwin. of course you can use Miss, Ms or Mrs exactly as you choose.

Sometimes I come on this forum just to be reassured that I'm not the only woman in the whole country who is massively bothered by this type of thing. Slightly OT but I booked a holiday the other day through a small travel company. I will admit that the the owner's question, "And is that Mrs, Miss or Ms?" was actually a (small) factor in choosing to book with them! Thank you for actually understanding there is a choice and offering it!

I was slightly hacked off with my mentor the other day too (I am a student midwife). A married woman came in for booking who had a different last name to her husband. Afterwards my mentor went on this mild rant about how different surnames make it so difficult (erm, how?) and why can't these women just take their husbands' names? I took great delight in letting her know that I would not be changing my name when I marry later this year I don't think my mentor would even be able to comprehend a married woman who didn't want to use Mrs.

Just musing about this. I am starting to wonder if the title 'Ms' has been subject to exactly the same kind of anti-feminist marketing campaign as the word 'feminist' from the outset. Despite the fact that its universal adoption would solve a problem and get rid of an anachronistic system in which women advertise their marital status according to their title, some women avoid it due to 'negative' connotations, such as: you must be divorced, or a lesbian, a rabid feminist, or just plain bolshy.

Funny, that. When all it really indicates is that you are female. I encounter fewer funny looks when I use it now though, so I still hold out hope for the title.

Btw I wouldn't mind if any title (Ms/Mrs/Miss) became universal, so long as it stops the practice of making distinctions based on marital status. Don't all adult women use 'Frau' in Germany or something? And there was something on the radio recently about French officialdom switching to 'Madame' now and not using Mademoiselle anymore . Perhaps someone else can add detail on this.

yes that's correct pengwin. Many countries used to have married/unmarried titles, but nowadays a lot of them just use the "unmarried" one for young girls and "married" for all adults. reasonable, I think.

I'm pissed off about this too.

When DDs start at her school I gave my name as Ms LanceCorporalBoiledEgg, but everything I receive from them is addressed to Miss LanceCorporalBoiledEgg. Grrrr....

I agree too.I didnt even change my surname and i still get adressed as Mr and mrs J not even my fecking name on there at all. Also any monies due to us-insurance payouts or suchlike are all written to him. I havent ceased to exist because i got married-tuts.

I've always felt very odd being introduced in the formal way as (for instance) "please welcome, Mrs Andrew DeVere". The only time you become Mrs Diane DeVere is when you're widowed. Of course this is all old-fashioned, correct! etiquette that probably needs readdressing (literally). The only alternative is to keep your name or change it to something else. I agree with twostepsback, that the Mr and Mrs DeVere is prob just pitched right for a school (they're not government or the military after all, so no need to be quite so traditional).

You have all prompted me to double check the way my letters go out to my clients at work. I am fairly certain they go out using both initials, but I will now double check and change if necessary.

On the plus side, I decided a few months ago that when I draft the transfer deed for properties (I am a property lawyer) I would draft them with the woman's name first, then the man's. It's only convention that makes it usual for it to be the mans name first.

Though I must 'fess up to the fact that I do put the man's name first on mortgage deeds. Petty, I know, but I have no problem with them being first named on debts!

I heard that on WH too pengwin. I think it would make good sense to have one title for all adult women regardless of marital status. However as they pointed out on the show, which one? Would they now need to make up a 4th alternative to Miss Mrs or Ms. It's all too much !!