Why can't we just ban page three?

[Dragontamer]

Brilliant points raised by Clare Short in The Independent. To summarise:
You would think that the relentless sexism in the media would come up against 'media ethics'. However, Lord Leveson says that this topic goes beyond his remit. It is not ok to have lewd pictures of women on the office wall or before the watershed, why then are these images allowed in a widely circulated, national newspaper?

Having just had a daughter, I am anxious about what messages she will receive from this type of constant negative bombardment about women's bodies.

When Short has attempted to challenge this she has been bombarded by the snide remarks about her own body and criticised as being 'jealous'.

So, could this be a new campaign for mumsnet? Let me know your thoughts...

You can't beat and force people into behaviour. Banning doesn't work otherwise there would be no crime. Laws exist to protect people. In the case of p3, I'm failing to understand clearly what would be protected by banning it.

Education is the only way to change behaviour. Behaviour is learned and innate. Banning doesn't work IMO, in fact sometimes it makes things worse.

What is laughable is that page 3 is ok on a train but if i was to lift or take my top off i would get done by the police for indecent exposure. What is the difference as i cant see it youself?

*myself. What if we took the modles to court for exposing themselves to us?

Expectation and fantasy perhaps? We watch love scenes in films but wouldn't watch couples getting it on in real life necessarily. We watch violence on tv but not real life. We watch soaps all the time but would you stand by and watch in real life? Fantasy is completely different to reality.

Oversimplifying the complexities of the situation doesn't always help you understand them.

Without fantasy, we wouldn't have imagination and what a useless dull species we would become. Imagination is what makes humans distinct to other species. It's what makes us great. We can emmerse ourselves in something that is not real in our environment and so think though so many possibilities. We actively encourage imagination in children but apparently adults should stop and become social robots.

Immerse, not emmerse.

eclectic I don't think there is anything to explain to girls about what is going on when a bloke on a train ogles page 3 and then stares fixedly at her breasts, and then back to the paper and then back to her breasts again. She knows exactly what is going on.

eclectic do you think the london underground at 8am is an appropriate place for men to indulge in sexual fantasy in a way that makes it obvious to others around them that is what they are doing?

Schoolgirls, despite what many men like to think, do not enjoy being leered at, and they do not enjoy having men around them who are looking at soft porn.

Its simple men own the paper and want to see tits and there is always women willing to flash their tits for money for lots of reasons like they are just boobs its my body or its my right as a women to show my body if i want to and im fine with that or people see worse in ads on tv.

It will not be ban but i think its out dated and should be stoped now as it severs no point anymore.

FGS now you are saying that the prospect of a man sitting on a train and obviously fantasising about the breasts of the girls and women who are near him is what makes human beings so great? Get a grip, seriously.

Sq, girls, boys, women and men have to learn to deal and handle situations around them. We don't live in isolation. Whether its sitting next to a guy looking at p3 or sitting next to a person being racist or a person being sexist. Banning is not the solution. Educating the girl or whoever to know its not acceptable and not the way everyone thinks is what helps. Seriously, it amazes me that feminists want to ban things rather than change society. How would you feel if men banned women from looking at pictures of naked men.

Sq, this is an open debate. Can you not be more open and polite?

You can't let personal feelings drive feminism. It has to be all encompassing, logical and fair. It's not about you only, it's about everyone workin together I improve things.

"Educating the girl or whoever to know its not acceptable"

But that's not true.
It is acceptable. If it wasn't, it wouldn't happen, openly, in public.
What she is being taught is that it is that women's bodies are primarily important for men to look at, and that it is fine for men to look at her that way when she is just quietly trying to get to school.

eclectic I think you will find that squillions of people hate page 3 and want to see the back of it.
You have said yourself on this thread that you think it is inappropriate.

Can't you see some feminist issues arise out of bigger things and can't just be banned to suit feminism. It takes a coherent wide angled approach. Are you actually reading my posts and thinking about them or just telling me I'm wrong because I don't agree with you?

Can you explain why a man sitting on a train obviously sexually fantasising about the girls and women around him is a great thing? Thank you.

I would like to see a photo of a naked man but then you cant find any in the media. Maybe cos the top jobs are given to men or that men will not modle or that women are not allowed a sexualliy.

You do agree with me.
You have said that page 3 is inappropriate.
So I'm not sure why you're simultaneously making out you disagree.

I think it inappropriate in "newspapers". But let's not pretend the sun or DM are newspapers. I think it's more important that people are educated and encourage to question what they see. You can't make everyone behave the same...

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?start=154&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=vP_Hxr8SKdHs-M:&imgrefurl=thefilipinogay.blogspot.com/&docid=XgDAolNzyl4GjM&imgurl=3.bp.blogspot.com/_pr7R_ztdFIk/TTtnfrhB3fI/AAAAAAAAEzg/M7n1dUxXRYQ/s1600/09_05bw.jpg&w=760&h=1140&ei=UfcKUKLnIYO40QXnyp3sCg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=442&sig=107566779655659111226&page=7&tbnh=149&tbnw=99&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:154,i:264&tx=56&ty=71" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here you go, anairofhope

If it were big strong gay men openly looking at soft porn pictures of men on the tube and ogling the men and boys around them, there would be an outcry.

You seriously can't find pictures of naked men...

There are more naked women than men but women also buy media to see won naked and compare rather than just men for titillation. Men on average don't compare themselves to other men openly and so that's why I believe the difference exists. Look at comments on DM entertainment .... It's mainly women.

There would not be an outcry at a man looking at pictures of a topless man.