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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Caitlin Moran's How To Be a Woman

32 replies

ShagOBite · 07/02/2012 17:56

I've just finished, and loved this. I've seen it mentioned on here lots, but when it was recommended to me by a male friend I was spurred on to buy a copy.

I really enjoyed it - funny, insightful and ultimately a really positive discussion of feminism.

I wondered what others had made of it?

OP posts:

Original poster

ShagOBite · 07/02/2012 17:57

Oh, but perhaps a little too blatantly 'borrowing' from MN - lots! (Greggs sausage rolls to name but one MN cliche)

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Byeckerslike · 07/02/2012 18:01

I downloaded the sample on my kindle and didnt bother with the full version, i just couldnt get into it, i cant really put my finger on why not.

toptramp · 07/02/2012 18:40

I really enjoyed it but as I have said so on here I do disagree with her when she says that bitching about other women's appearance is acceptable and not anti- feminist.

munkysea · 07/02/2012 19:03

I loved it - especially her take on how feminism means the freedom to do something because you're a human being, and if you're going to be judged for being selfish, greedy, silly, or stupid, to be judged as a selfish person, and not a selfish woman. She makes it make more sense, honest.

Not sure if I agree about how childbirth makes you a better person because of the pain. I'm not too keen on pain, and like most people barring the odd selfish or thoughtless episodes I'm a pretty much ok human being, thanks.

BeeBawBabbity · 07/02/2012 19:06

Hmmm, I thought it was funny, but I took issue with a few of her ideas. She seemed to suggest in one chapter that if gay guys like something it's not anti-feminist (thereby assuming all gay men like the same things)...

Also her insinuation that childbirth will go swimmingly if you just believe it will irritated me. And there was a lot of GaGa love, which made me think she wanted to brag a bit about their friendship.

Having said all that I enjoyed it and gave it to my mate to read. Just not sold on her feminist 'theories'.

Original poster

ShagOBite · 07/02/2012 19:13

Well, I didn't get that she was saying childbirth pain made you a better person? Must have missed that.

Also thought the Gaga bit was OTT. Especially as we all know Gaga is a MK-Ultra puppet!

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Original poster

ShagOBite · 07/02/2012 19:15

Her thoughts on abortion, although uncomfortable to read, did make it easier for me to clarify my own thoughts. Having had a stillbirth has made me less anti-abortion, and I never really understood that, but her reasoning that the mind and the body (misscarriage/SB) are equally able to make that decision males sense.

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kerala · 07/02/2012 21:20

Some of her phases brilliant. Loved her description of a lap dancing club as "an AGM for bad husband material". Spot on and funny too.

munkysea · 07/02/2012 21:59

@ShagOBite I've conflated it a lot a bit but she talks about her arduous first labour gave her greater perspective, which I thought, um, maybe...

Original poster

ShagOBite · 07/02/2012 22:08

Ah yes I see. But I think you're adding two and two...

Also like the lap dancing AGM.

Not afraid of Jordan, is she? Thought her scorn for her was hilarious. But very taken with Gaga.

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IDoNotLIKEFun · 08/02/2012 13:34

I'm really enjoying it and have just read the, "I Am a Feminist" chapter.

Loved her simple test. Vagina? Want to be in charge of it? Feminist.

"Kick my arse and take back the vote" and the comments about Daily Wailers endlessly debating it at £1500 per article and that money going into their own bank accounts.

And this:

Imagine if, in the sixties it had become fashionable for black people to say that they "weren't into" civil rights?

OnlyANinja · 08/02/2012 22:12

I liked it as a book but think it was misrepresented - it was sold and advertised as a feminist treatise rather than a memoir (which is what it really is).

IDoNotLIKEFun · 08/02/2012 23:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IDoNotLIKEFun · 09/02/2012 09:34

Well I'm not quite sure what happened there Hardly relevant. First time on the feminism board / reading Caitlin Moran, plus and I start ranting. Is that what people refer to as a "trigger"?

Sorry - have asked for it to be removed.

OnlyANinja · 09/02/2012 09:38

Don't feel you have to have it removed if you don't want to. I'm not very good at replying to stuff like that because I don't know what to say other than "sorry that you went through that", but if you want to talk about it then you should.

TunipTheVegemal · 09/02/2012 10:45

IDoNotLIKEFuN, there was a loooong thread a year or two back about 'small sexual assaults'. It was mind-blowing: how many people had suffered something like that, how much they were affected by it, how many had blamed themselves, or been blamed, how many had never told anyone else until that moment.
(There were also quite a lot of assaults described that were NOT small but somehow calling it 'small' assaults gave people permission to talk about them when they had been under pressure to minimise them and not wanted to make a fuss.)
I mention this so you will know that you are not alone. The thread was upsetting for a lot of people but also weirdly liberating as well.

Hope you're ok, do not feel embarrassed about mentioning it here, it is the perfect place to do so.

IDoNotLIKEFun · 09/02/2012 11:48

Thank you both

NiftyNanny · 11/02/2012 17:03

I'm not entirely sure what I make of the book. I think I wanted it to speak to me more than it did... I found it fairly facile. It seemed to suggest that the patriarchy wouldn't have as much power if everyone didn't wear heels (unless you are doing it for FUN!) which ignores... so much.... aargh. I was pretty disappointed after it had been talked about as "great feminist writing" to find it a "I am a woman and I don't do this because - oh who cares, let's be irreverent! LOL!!"

I don't shave my leg or armpit hair because it hurts & I'm lazy. I know it's my choice & in an ideal world more people would feel comfortable being unapologetic about avoiding itchy rashes & time consuming depilation routines. I'm with her on so much, but sometimes her attitude rankles as it's light on the theorising about why women feel pressure to conform to pressure rather heavier on the "aren't I a bit special because I indulge myself?" angle....

WidowWadman · 11/02/2012 18:45

I liked it a lot - although I did get annoyed when she started harping on about the epiphany that was the birth of her second child. And not sure whether the Lady Gaga chapter added much.

However it spoke to me more than anything which goes on about "trauma-bonding", MRAs etc.

OnlyANinja · 11/02/2012 18:47

When she talks about the birth of her second child it sounds very much as if she is blaming herself for her first birth being traumatic. Like it was her not-thinking-positively that made it go badly.

Bue · 11/02/2012 18:54

Absolutely loved it except for the birth of the second child bit. Blaming herself for the bad first birth and believing that the second was wonderful because she willed it to be wonderful. Oh Caitlin!

trice · 11/02/2012 19:16

I loved the book. I found it entertaining and it made me laugh out loud. I thought the feminism part was lightly done but deliberately so. If you are looking for in depth politics you would be disappointed.

It made me rather envy her large family and close relationship with her siblings.

ballroompink · 12/02/2012 08:15

I liked it. It was funny and engaging. No, it wasn't the new Female Eunuch as some people were trying to claim and I think this was what made some people irritable about it, but when I want full-on academic feminism I have plenty of other books I can read.

Lots of my friends who would only really be interested in feminism in a loose sort of way read it and loved it, and felt that various parts really made certain things clearer for them and impacted them in a big way, which I think is great.

northeastofeden · 15/02/2012 20:51

well it was entertaining and funny, and I like Caitlin's weekly column in the times, but I did think some of her arguments were pretty flaky in places/not entirely thought through. Having said that if it helps women (and men) take back what it means to be a feminist and promotes it as something to be proud of then I am all for it.

Kiwiinkits · 15/02/2012 21:34

I loved it - I thought it hit the mark about what modern feminism's priorities should be, without being preachy or bull-headed. Also very funny.

(I wonder if Jordan will read it....)

I am a strident feminist!

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