Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Daybreak

31 replies

MrsClown · 02/02/2012 07:57

I am absolutely raving so I am sorry if I go on.

This morning I was watching Daybreak and there was an article about a little girl called Lily Lawson (I think she was about 8 or 9). She had scored 71 goals in 14 football matches and had just been signed up by a junior team in Blackburn.

Now I cant stand football, mainly because of what it stands for but that is irrelevant in this case. The interviewer was speaking to Lily and said to her 'You are even that good you are allowed to play with the boys' I was gobsmacked. What does that say to other little girls and Lily for that matter. Lily was a fab footballer in her own right and should not be compared to the boys etc. I am sure Lily and her family are aware that Lily could be scoring 71 goals per match and she still would not earn anywhere near as much as a male player. It made me sick having the female interview say that to Lily.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 02/02/2012 09:34

The trouble is that it wouldn't rate a mention if it wasn't a girl. If a boy was being signed up for a junior team - which I'm sure they are by the dozen - it's not news. If the whole angle of the piece is gender, the scope for questions is limited. That said, that does sound like a particularly poor question. :)

SardineQueen · 02/02/2012 14:32

That's awful.

How did Lily react?

KRITIQ · 02/02/2012 16:28

Yes Cogito, the "hook" was that it was a young girl excelling in a sport dominated by boys and men. That fact would have spoke for itself pretty clearly in the piece. That didn't mean, however the interviewer had to make such a patronising and undermining comment about her being "good enough" to "be allowed" to play with the boys. That sentence still suggests that she really only got the chance on sufferance (i.e. "allowed" - girls need to ask permission to do anything not designated as girly,right?) and that boys are still going to probably be inherently better than she will be.

The sex of the interviewer didn't surprise me, although I could see for the little girl at least that she might have hoped another woman might have been able to praise her without throwing in some comparison with boys, but hey ho, girls learn pretty damned early that they don't matter much!

WidowWadman · 02/02/2012 16:43

To be fair, most sports have gender segregation to ensure fair competition. If you didn't have men's and women's football, but only football, physical differences would mean that women couldn't compete at the top of the league and wouldn't be present in the sport at all.

That men's football secures bigger sponsorships and generates more money is a different issue. So that the girl is currently good enough to have been signed up, is an achievement, and shows just how good she really is. It's not sexist, or derogatory to point that out.

sportsfanatic · 02/02/2012 16:53

Part of the problem is that proportionately fewer girls and women than boys and men enjoy or value sport (not me as you can see from my username Grin) so they tend to assume that all females are like them. Interviewers are no different, thus the idiotic question. You only have to watch quiz programmes (Eggheads is just one example) when, as soon as the topic of sport comes up most of the female contestants haven't a clue.

So they can't get their heads round the fact that some of us prefer sport to shopping and don't think it is remotely impossible that an eight or nine year old girl could be excellent at her chosen sport or even - gosh wow, hold the front page - better than some boys.

Look no further than Mumsnet - where is the sports topic in the popular forums?

Chubfuddler · 02/02/2012 16:56

The problem here is that you were watching daybreak which is designed for the moronic to have in in the background to get their not very powerful brains into gear.

Listen to Today on radio four and you may not have this problem again.

Original poster
MrsClown · 03/02/2012 07:59

Chubfuddler, you dont know me so please do not call me moronic. How insulting! You have no idea what I do for a living or the kind of person I am, please do not generalise about me.

OP posts:
Chubfuddler · 03/02/2012 09:57

Don't watch tv for idiots then.

JosieRosie · 03/02/2012 10:15

Oh OP my heart sank when I saw 'Daybreak' in your thread title - it's absolutely and utterly ghastly for this sort of thing (and in many other ways!) Was the female interviewer Kate Garraway by any chance??? She can always be relied on for a witless, sexist comment at a moment's notice.

'The problem here is that you were watching daybreak which is designed for the moronic to have in in the background to get their not very powerful brains into gear'

Well that's less than helpful Chubfuddler and very unnecessary Hmm

JosieRosie · 03/02/2012 10:18

'Listen to Today on radio four and you may not have this problem again'

Just noticed this. Heavens no, no chance of any sexism on Radio Four!!!Hmm

Original poster
MrsClown · 03/02/2012 10:26

Chubfuddler - who on earth do you think you are. Mind you, at my age I have come to realise I can always count on women for support - NOT! People that call people idiots in a generalised way are usually the stupid people!

JosieRosie, thanks for your support. No it wasnt Kate, but I cant remember who it was as I was getting ready for work and only turned around when I heard the bit that pissed me off.

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsClown · 03/02/2012 10:33

Sardine, sorry just noticed your question. Lily just said yes. I think she had her 1st awakening about sexism or sadly she thought it was an ok thing to say. Her parents were present but they didnt say anything on camera. Sorry I didnt answer you before but I was too busy being called a moron by some ignoramous whose name I cant be bothered to put in my head. I havent got my not very powerful brain in gear!

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 03/02/2012 10:43

Incidentally while I see your point widowwadman about adult men and women competing separately, I don't think that need apply to 8 / 9 yo?

At DDs school they have football club after school and it is mixed - it's a primary school - DD isn't that old yet but I saw them out there a while back and the children were all practicing together including the older ones.

I can't see anything wrong with that. Better than segregating them and sending the boys to football and the girls to cooking or whatever inevitably seems to happen. They certainly wouldn't run one class for boys and one class for girls in the same thing. So the boys would get football, whether they liked it or not, and the girls something else, whether they liked it or not. And most children do not have the confidence / thick skin to do the activity which is "for" the other sex.

Chubfuddler · 03/02/2012 10:46

I don't know what you're do upset about. You clearly aren't this programme's target market and that's why these frothy stupid bits annoy you. Watch something else.

SardineQueen · 03/02/2012 10:46

I think it is important for people engaged in this type of discussion to keep an eye on what is going on in popular culture. If a person considers themself to be above certain sections of the media, they will not know what sort of things are going on there. You can't challenge something if you don't know it is happening.

It is therefore very important that members of the feminism section do their duty and "take one for the team" by tuning into programs like Daybreak, Doctors, Celebrity get me out of here and Big Brother on as regular as basis as they can manage.

HTH Smile

Chubfuddler · 03/02/2012 10:47

And get into eventing. Men and women compete in that.

Original poster
MrsClown · 03/02/2012 10:55

Chub - I am not upset because I dont let people who resort to calling others morons because they do not watch the same 'challenging' programmes as they do. Whay annoys is that you didnt seem annoyed about the point re the little girl but just concentrated on calling me a moron!!!! As I said, you do not know me. I agree with SQ - sometimes you have to watch some crap to keep up with things. It is people like you who make women think feminism is elitist. It should not be.

OP posts:
Chubfuddler · 03/02/2012 10:58

I'm just surprised that you're surprised to find stupid sexist shit being peddled on this programme. It's a stupid programme. It caters to a market. You aren't part of that market.

Chubfuddler · 03/02/2012 11:01

And for the record I didn't call you a moron.

slug · 03/02/2012 11:10

sportsfanatic, I would take issue with the idea that women, as a whole, don't enjoy sport. Whenever I turn on the TV or read the sports pages all I see is mens sport. Women barely get a mention. That's why I don't watch it or am bothered with it in any way. If the media had the grace to admit to only covering men's sport, by labelling it, perhaps, the "Men's Sport Pages, with a few women's bits thrown in so we can show women in skimpy outfits" then possibly the daft idea that women don't value sport will be questioned.

Every morning I read the paper on my train journey into work. Just for fun I tweet the number of stories about men to and the number of stories about women in the sports pages. I'm fair, I even count those little one or two sentence stories just in case. Usually the ratio is somewhere in the region of 30:2 Because this is an olympics year, you tend to see a few more female stories, the swimmers, kyakers and gymnasts for example who you normally never hear about but may shame the men by performing better than them, will be given a few small mentions.

Yesterday, for example, there was even a picture of a female sportsperson. I have no idea who it was, as it was a picture of a Beach Volleyball player's arse in a skimpy bikini bottom, but at least it was a small acknowledgement that women have been known to grace a sports field occasionally.

sportsfanatic · 03/02/2012 11:27

slug, you could be right by taking issue with me. But if women as a whole do enjoy or value sport why no Sport on popular forums in Mumsnet? To have such a forum that was well supported could prove you correct.

I do agree with you though about the lack of coverage of female sport - it is disgraceful. However, I don't understand why anyone who genuinely enjoys sport would not watch it because it is men involved, though. Sport is sport. I couldn't be one of those sports enthusiasts who only likes it because females are involved.

WidowWadman · 03/02/2012 12:05

sportsfanatic Hear hear - totally agree, that it'd be great if more women's sports would get greater coverage, but the suggestion that a woman should be only interested in women's sport is weird.

SardineQueen · 03/02/2012 12:07

I like to watch the snooker Smile

I'm not sure that counts as a sport though Confused

And the conversation about watching / participation / coverage / conversation - it's a bit chicken and egg isn't it. Is it that women don't watch / talk about it as they are inherently not interested, or are they not interested as they are directed by society that they are not supposed to be?

I bet there will be lots of people on here talking about the olympics when they happen - and certainly wimbledon gets a lot of talk on here. So it's not right to say that people don't talk about sport on here at all. I have also seen conversations about rugby and football, now I come to think of it.

And thinking about it - the new snooker boss has made a lot of changes and I was watching one of the new speedy style competitions on the telly and bizarrely when the players were introduced they walked out flanked by scantily clad young women. What was that all about? It certainly gave me a strong messsage that this sport / game wasn't for me, it was for men.

SardineQueen · 03/02/2012 12:08

You get teh same with the Tour de France (which I watch sometimes) and motorcycle racing (which I used to follow a bit). "Young lovelies" all over the podiums with the winning men. It sends quite a strong message IMO.

I get annoyed when sporting events are adorned with scantily clad women for no apparent reason, basically Grin

WidowWadman · 03/02/2012 12:15

Oh, I get annoyed with the TDF totty at the stage ends. (And have bored my husband who tends to agree with me silly with my rants about it)

Still, I love the tour, and it does not bother me that it's male cyclists only. I imagine that if it was mixed that the women would fall to the back of the peloton very quickly, simply due to physical differences. That said, if they would show a women's grand tour, I'd probably follow it, the same as I followed women's cycling in the last olympics.

Swipe left for the next trending thread