Bras

[Molasses]

Inspired by the high heels thread: bras. Why do women with less than a D cup bother? I read a comment about nipples poking out and needing to hide them. Doesn't sound particularly liberating.

Plentyofpubegardens - am I only allowed to debate serious issues on mumsnet then? When was that decided, and why wasn't I notified?

I was objecting to the implication that, in order to have an opinion in the Feminist section, you have to have delved deep into the ideology of whatever is being discussed, and that somehow, if you haven't done so, you shouldn't post here as your opinion is worthless. I was trying to make the point that people make decisions in their lives for serious, well thought out reasons and for simple, banal ones, and that I, for one, don't have the time or head-space to have an inner debate on the role of the patriarchy in determining women's underwear before I strap on a bra each morning. I do it because I prefer the way my boobs feel if they are in a bra, and because I don't like the way I look in my clothes if my boobs are round my waist (which believe me, they would be without the bra). So basically, I wear a bra because I like it - and that is a perfectly valid contribution to the debate - because it is an honest one. I'm sorry if it isn't sufficiently feminist or deep for some in this section.

I wear a bra because I like it: I wear a veil because I like it: I wear heels because I like them: I have face-lifts because they make me feel better.

All valid, not feminist in terms of analytical discussion.

onlyaninja, yes, gutted that in the last book Ayla accidentally invents patriarchy.

I conform to the wearing of bras in public, must confess I frequently don't bother at home when it's warm.
Post 40 I think DD2 would notice if I collect her from school without ( has been known when I was younger.)
I'm only a B cup (years of BF have made no difference, I've never properly filled a C even when PG).
Except for convention I wouldn't wear one, I have narrow shoulders the stapes fall off.

Straps

Molasses I do like wearing a bra, it means my body is more comfortable. If I don't wear a bra whilst out and doing things by the end of the day by boobs ache I also like using modern sanitary protection instead of using rags in my underwear so I can (mostly) go about my usual day to day life without interference.

Even choosing underwear that "smooths out" my breasts/disguises nipples is not an issue in my mind. Men also choose clothes that don't show body "lumpiness" as well as being practical and comfortable.

Possibly wonderbras (do they still exist?) and similar are a feminist issue, but supportive bras are not. That said, I do think that the current style of balonette (?) bras which don't keep breasts in place, are more uncomfortable than braless and just make them look more "appealing" are a problem.

SDTG - I haven't delved too deeply into the ideology of wearing/not wearing a bra - I'm interested in learning a bit more here on this thread. I'm just starting from the point that I wear a bra because I feel I have to and I resent that.

The impression I got from your previous post was that you thought this was a trivial subject to discuss at all - apologies if that is not what you meant.

No apology needed, Plenty - I clearly wasn't clear enough. All I was objecting to was some people's contributions being dismissed with the implication that they weren't sufficiently serious/well thought-out/feminist.

Ooops - pressed post too soon - I absolutely agree that it is wrong for anyone to feel that they have to wear a bra, in order to conform with society, when it does nothing for them personally (either by offering practical support or being something pretty with which they enjoy wearing). I don't go round looking for women who aren't wearing a bra and judging them, and I would hope that most other people don't either.

I do think that sometimes people put pressure on themselves, and judge themselves far more harshly than the world actually does. For example, I didn't manage to successfully breastfeed my dses past 2 or 3 months, and I felt a total failure for this. Most of my friends breastfed with no problems (or no problems apparent to me, at least), and I compared myself to them and judged myself very harshly - which contributed to PND.

I do wonder whether this is, in part at least, a similar issue. Whether women have taken on board the belief that they must wear a bra, and so, like you, they do so, even though it makes them uncomfortable or resentful, but actually the vast majority of society wouldn't even notice if they didn't wear a bra, or wouldn't care that much either way. Of course, the question of why women feel they need to wear a bra is a much deeper one, and one I am not qualified to examine - though I deplore it.

Oh god I am pompous before I've had my first coffee. Sorry.

I'm a G cup, and I wear an underwired bra all the time, including in bed. I am much more comfy in a bra than without. My sports bras are a mix of soft and wired but the most effective ones are like armour and not comfy to wear except for sports.

I wore soft feeding bras for about 18 months and they were comfortable but I look better in wired. Yes they are better uplifted and forward facing. Clothes look better over them and I look slimmer. DH couldn't care less it is my own body image. I also hate nipples showing through my clothes. Ridiculous I suppose but I do.

If anyone made soft crop tops in bigger sizes I might wear them at home. I am definitely more comfortable in a bra but I suppose the type of bra I wear is because of what society says breasts should look like.

I wouldn't compare bras to wearing heels. Except women with small perky breasts, I think most of us agree that wearing a supportive bra is significantly more comfortable than not wearing one.

Bras are a feminist issue though. Remember this? www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2010/06/17/somalis_forced_to_forego_soccerand_bras.html

SDTG It seems you had a problem with my comment earlier. "I like x :( End of discussion!" comments are very common when someone tries to discuss a subject from a feminist perspective- like something related to beauty practices - and it seems like comments like that are kind of meant to shut up discussion. Kind of I like it, so it's no prob, god those feminists complain about everything! If a topic named "Do you like/wear bras" was posted in Chat then it would be a good response to just write if you wear them or not. But OP posted it in Fem discussion, so she probably wanted some thoughts from a feminist perspective.

I'm not demanding perfection of commenters here, I'm shit at typing in english anyway. :)

Actually WRT to high heels, for some women it's more comfortable to wear heels than flat shoes. This may be because they have worn heels for so many years that their Achilles tendons have shortened so it's Their Own Fault, but it would still be a bit unreasonable to expect them to give up their heels and endure discomfort just to get a Good Feminist cookie. I do think that 'I like wearing [whatever]' is a valid reason to do so; it only becomes unfeminist when you nag and whine at other women to make the same choice as you when they are not you and may have all sorts of reasons for wearing different things.

Bloody hell, I am a B cup and there's no way I could go braless. I wouldn't be able to walk at faster than a snail's pace. I'll go without one if I'm going to the shop or something, but not if I'm going about my day's work, it would be SO painful. It's certainly nothing to do with them looking perky, it just wouldn't be comfortable.

With heels: I have one incredibly comfortable pair of heels. They are ankle boots, soft material and a very chunky heel and platform. When I wear them I feel tall and powerful. And I hate that anyone would argue that wearing them is anti-feminist. They are more comfortable than any flat shoe I've ever worn.

One reason I wear a bra is because it keeps me warm. My breasts really do feel the cold first.
Other than that it's something I've never even thought of. Mine are all comfortable ones. I can't bear underwired even though my friend tells me that a correctly fitted one should be comfy.

C cup here - i'm scrawny and if i wear bras they hurt like hell by mid morning because the underwire digs into my ribs - if you could buy attractive and grownup style non-underwired bras i might wear them occasionally but i love not wearing them and don't even think of it these days as i gave them up so long ago.
all non-underwire seem to be either white/black/nude plain and dull or else really little girl styled.
no sag noticed, i feel i'm doing less damage to the tissue underneath my breasts by not wearing a bra than i did wearing them

i'm a bit of a speed walker and i never notice a problem with bounce - a tight t shirt is enough to counteract walking bounce but a simple sports bra does become necessary for running

I have sometimes worn bras sometimes not. My mother was always very disapproving of the not wearing when I was in my teens as she said that my 'shape' was so much nicer with one.

It's more comfy to wear one when running up the stairs for eg but around the house I generally can't be bothered and rarely at all anywhere in the summer (or for that matter in the winter under all my layers). The only reason I tend to wear one at the moment is that it makes it a little harder for DD to help herself to milk if I've said no and she's in a persistent mood

I don't think that obvious sticky outy perky nipples in a man raise any less eyebrows than sticky outy perky nipples in a woman. That's why most men I know where some kind of vest or t-shirt underneath their shirts. The only context where obvious male nipplage is not only not frowned upon but encouraged is Latin dance, I think. Might be just my own prejudice though.

Anyway, the bra burning thing is actually a myth and when out and about and active I feel more comfortable wearing a bra, because I don't like it when they flop about.

I thought men wore vests to keep them warm. That's why I wear them sometimes. I'm probably not going to understand bras for active purposes since the only time I move faster than a snail is when I'm late for something. I get sports bras if I get bras at all, but only because they look quite comfy.

When I say 'get' I mean 'understand'. I've never bought a sports bra, because as I've implied, I don't do any sport.

WidowWadman - I don't know, I think it is quite acceptable for a man working on a building site or other outdoor work to be topless in hot weather, certainly I see plenty of men working like that. Whereas I imagine a woman working topless in similar circumstances would get a lot of comments!

I have to say that it isn't something that bothers me as I burn easily so can't even wear a vest top in hot sun & always wear thin cotton shirts but I'm sure others find it more troublesome.

Mind you in hot weather I wear my thin cotton shirts with no bra underneath and have never had any comments.

Because that's what we've been taught to do since we were 13??? I would never not wear a bra. I would think only barbaians wouldn't wear a bra :L