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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

women and muscularity

89 replies

MitchierInge · 19/01/2012 12:24

anyone interested in a sort of amorphous chat about this, from the bodybuilding competitions (bikinis and high heels) to women weight training generally?

I would like a pound of lean muscle for everyone who has warned me it is not attractive in a woman when:

  1. I am not attractive anyway (although obviously can't help sort of wanting to be but not to extent that I will actually get a hair style etc)
  2. I think it is attractive, perhaps not the bulked up by steroids look but healthy athleticism definitely is
  3. What does being attractive have to do with strengthening your body? Or is that what they mean, strength is unattractive?
OP posts:
Jolyonsmummy · 19/01/2012 22:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ClothesOfSand · 19/01/2012 23:54

I have to admit that I hate sport and don't see it as problematic their neither my son nor my daughter have any desire to participate it. DD has had it written in her school report for four years running that she is nervous of physical contact during sport. DS admits that he hides at the back during rugby and avoids getting the ball so that other people won't come and grab him.

Nobody in our house does any sport or watches any sport, including DH. It just seems incredibly boring. We will all exercise for fun, between us - riding bikes, swimming, walking, going up mountains, dance classes, snowboarding and horse riding. But none of us would ever compete in sport or take part in an organised event. So I don't see that women or girls not participating in sport is problematic; I see it as men over participating in an activity that I cannot see the appeal of at all. Is sport held up as being a great thing because it is associated with men, or because it has some kind of universal benefit that I'm not seeing and women are missing out on?

I wouldn't claim that it is more natural for be women to be less muscular. Clearly it depends what you do with your body. But women's do store fat more in particular areas and testosterone differences make it harder work for women to become muscular than it is for men. Women's bodies are different to men's and do require a higher proportion of fat to remain healthy. But there is a great amount of room in the middle between having too much fat and having too little fat for women to have a variety of body shapes that are healthy, including those that are more muscular than women in our society usually have. But you have to work harder than a man would have to to build up that muscle tone. And so while muscular female bodies should be seen as perfectly acceptable, I don't think something that requires a lot of effort to modify the body should be held up as being a new ideal.

And while many women may want to define themselves by other things which is fine for them, I do define myself primarily as a woman who has been pregnant, breastfed and is a mother. But I do think that there is an argument to be made that it is feminist to do something that is just about you as a person, is about you enjoying yourself, has no benefit to anyone else and isn't a form of paid or unpaid work. Women don't spend enough time doing things purely for their own satisfaction and enjoyment. And weight training would fall into that category.

bobbledunk · 20/01/2012 02:15

There is an enormous difference between a woman being strong, healthy and toned, they tend to look very feminine and between body builders who seek to develop the musculature of a man. It is not healthy to burn all the fat off your body and take testosterone so you can become chemically male. It is no more attractive than a man with big tits and a small waistGrin

MitchierInge · 20/01/2012 09:29

I still don't quite understand what being attractive or feminine has to do with sport or exercise, although the side effect of a more positive body image (not the same thing) doesn't hurt. You can, of course, lift heavy weights without taking testosterone bobbledunk.

Feminine always makes me think of drag artists, read too much Angela Carter too early in life I think.

OP posts:
OrmIrian · 20/01/2012 10:30

"Feminine always makes me think of drag artists, read too much Angela Carter too early in life I think."

Yep. I hate the concept of femininity. It's being female, being a woman. No need for another word to describe that, especially not one that seems to carry value judgement as to 'how' to be a proper woman.

clothes - I hate sport too. Competitive sport I mean. But I love using my body until it feels good and strong. I love running. I love the feeling that I could carry on running forever, and feeling my heart beating steadily and strongly, my muscles moviing smoothly, my lungs working, the feeling of the air rushing past, and the sense of acheivement when you get home after a 10 mile run. I also enjoy the views, the thinking time away fron all the other demands on me. and the planning of new routes. It's not sport. It's way more than that. The fact that it also changes the way I look is an irrelevance.

Sadly I've been too injured and feeling too ill to run for ages now Sad I really miss it.

Hullygully · 20/01/2012 10:44

I used to like it too.

Hullygully · 20/01/2012 10:45

"feminine" makes me think of Barbara Cartland.

SardineQueen · 20/01/2012 11:11

Clothes sorry I didn't say what I meant. When I said "female participation in sport" it was shorthand for "females doing any form of exercise whatsoever" - I think I used it as that phrase has been in the papers lately.

Personally I dislike sport as well, but enjoy swimming and dancing. But still there is this problem of wet hair, getting hot and sweaty, makeup beign affected and so on that I mentioned earlier on in that thread.

SardineQueen · 20/01/2012 11:14

earlier on in that post

Gah!

readyveg · 20/01/2012 11:20

It's a shame that our bodies are so up for scrutiny and a great shame that the femine ideal has so much power to render all other forms abhorrent to large groups of men and women.

I am strong and muscly quite naturally, presume I am descended from short legged, broad backed healthy worker stock:) I am quite active and occasionally get fit, I can out lift lots of men at the gym and as a teen could arm wrestle any of the boys and win! Generally this was looked on as a positive and added to my teen admirers - would that still be the case? I have ribs bigger than my breasts and shoulders that don't fit in women's blouses and have never struggled to find myself attractive. I have had the odd man tell me how gross I am but I think we all get this sometimes. I have been attacked and retaliated and left the man reluctant to come near me again. A few times I have been singled out for being big and strong, as a teen by other teenage males and in gyms when I ahve left some dick feeling emasculated. I am happy to enjoy feeling strong whilst it lasts, when I have had some health issues and not been strong I miss it. I quite like seeing women with real muscles and athletic women too as it is great to see alternatives to the mainstream looks.

I quite like female body builders for their obvious strength and the self determination it has taken, the whole fake tan and g string thing works less well for me! Locally there is a women who works in a shop and she is tiny and super trim with the biggest biceps (sleeves rolled all the way up). She looks fab, if you watch around her you can see men just staring at her arms. There is another lady who runs and bikes everwhere with children and dog often with her. She is like an ultimate athlete,she doesn't compete it's just for her and I love the sense that she can commit to this and prioritise her desires. She attracts some comment and criticism for her choices in a way no one would ever comment on a super fit guy training.

I plan to start some weight training soon, feeling my age and want to build up strength in muscles and bones. I think i can do well at it in a way i couldn't at zumba... we will see. I think of muscles as womanly the term encompassing everything from earth mother breasts and hips, through to strong, via smart and slick and everything in between - an open and inclusive term whereas feminine is the repressive and restrictive but dominant image.

Quodlibet · 20/01/2012 12:44

Bobbledunk, just to clarify:

Female bodybuilders will never develop the 'musculature of a man'. They will develop the musculature of a well-developed woman. Men and women have similar/identical anatomical structures in most regards.
Natural bodybuilders (Jodie Marsh and my friend compete in Natural BB) don't 'take testosterone' to become 'chemically male'. They don't take any steroids or drugs. Their physiques are the result of women doing a lot of exercise and then stripping off the fat for a competition.

You're probably right that it wouldn't be healthy to strip that amount of fat off in normal life. The bodybuilders I know do it for very limited periods, just for competitions. (Why the competitions require that is of course another big question)

Does bodybuilding disturb you because it shows up the similarities between mens' and womens' bodies? Personally I find it inspiring to think 'WOW that's what's underneath here if I train hard!'

MildlyNarkyPuffin · 20/01/2012 16:15

'Feminine' makes me think of 'feminine hygiene' and those adds for special wipes and washes on the back of toilet doors in mototway service stations.

MitchierInge · 21/01/2012 18:56

want to see this mosaic of female gymnasts in the villa romana del casale, sicily

they do not look especially muscly do they?

OP posts:
Xenia · 21/01/2012 19:12

Most women I suppose of my ilk do quite a lot of sport and I think I'm fairly strong although I've never wanted to do muscle building and I don't like that fake steroids type look (on men or women).

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