Dressing "smart" to be taken seriously

[buggyRunner]

Just wondering if others have this problem.

Don't know if it's relevant and this is a self boasting thread. Yet I look younger than my age and ppl class me as attractive.

I find that if I dress 'nice' ie wear a dress, make up and put my hair down, I am not taken seriously. I find that ppl at work will dismiss me as a young girl and not give me the same respect as when I wear trousers, hair up no make up.

I some women act warmer when I dress down too.

I would never think a man would have this problem. I don't dress provocatively but like to take pride in my appearance- so why does this dumb me down?

I have the opposite problem. I am young looking and people don't take me seriously unless I go to a lot of trouble with my appearance, makeup etc.

Men do have to take care of their appearance if they want to be taken seriously - but that generally just means shave and put on a decent suit, rather than the massive daily effort women have to go through to achieve the same effect. And the rules are a lot more complicated, as our respective issues prove.

Everyone is judged on their appearance, male or female, and it all depends on context and audience. For example... as a surly middle-aged woman I did not appreciate that (as well as putting on a decent suit and shaving) the young asian lad talking to me about financial products the other day had opted to plaster his hair up Jedward-style with gel. I like my bankers to look very boring whereas maybe a younger customer would have been impressed by his stupid hair-do.

I wonder whether anyone, feminist or not, would say that they expect a banker to present a very boring appearance if the banker is a woman. Serious and competent yes, but not boring.

Maybe what we're used to is men using uniformity of appearance to convince us (and their bosses and their colleagues and maybe themselves) that they're keeping their dangerous male energy under control. If it's a woman in the same position, we don't have that instinctive fear, but there isn't the same easy reassurance available either, the way man's clothing and appearance say "I am taking this situation seriously and you can trust me."

Or something like that?

I think you're reading too much into my adjective 'boring'. Fear of their dangerous male energy???? The lad with the quiff didn't look dangerous or even all that energetic. He looked like a bit of a kid. If anyone, male or female, wants to put across that they are taking a situation seriously and can be trusted there are some well-known and readily accepted norms that they can follow. Sober-coloured suits does it every time.... leave the trendy, garish stuff for your mates at the weekend.

I think what the OP is struggling with is 'youth'. As a society we don't take young people as seriously as older people. My gelled-up banker failed on that one. A woman who already looks young for her age will find that dressing even younger affects reactions. Still... it's something time tends to fix. So I wouldn't complain too much if I were her.

The thing is I have a senior role in a homeless/ rehab hostel. In my career I have been advised to not wear dresses (yet all some of my colleagues do) for my own protection. It may excite my clients etc?

I felt like this comment was insulting me- am I only a sex object and my clients.

I keep the boundaries clear at work but why is it my fault if I get propositioned- indeed I actually responded to the criticism that sexual advances were a well known diversion tactic of a lot of clients.

i think you should say you are uncomfortable with their comments and would they care to elaborate when you are told this kind of thing rather than just suck it up. it is insulting, it's implying all sorts of things i think.

i would say dress as yourself, that's how you'll be most confident and feel most authentic. others like a costume.

it's a shame that we have to play up or play down or strike the right note all the time with our 'sexuality' in our presentation when in fact it is the looker who is the problem not us. you can play into it all and make the most expedient options for you or you can decide not to play into it and just be yourself. whichever will feel best to you.

as a side note i've noticed that since i cut my hair and appear less girlishly pretty women seem much more accepting of me but men seem slightly more antagonistic with me.

Man have a "uniform" at work, and this works enormously to their advantage. The status markers are still there (quality of fabric and cut, choice of shirt and tie, expense of accessories, shoes), but versions are available to all budgets, and wearing the uniform is one of the ways into the club; it is certainly a sign that you are taking work seriously.

There is no uniform standard for women. I think it is easy to confuse fashion and dressing in ways that please the self, with appropriate work attire. This may or may not matter to the individual, depending on attitude to what attributes will advance your career: note, I mean views on which do facilitate advancement, not which should

Fashion columns are there to promote the consumption of more clothes accessories and make up. Ideas there of appropriate attire for work are not based on what actually goes down well in the workplace.

Looking at the traditional/conservative end of women a tier or more up from you in your workplace is usually a good way of gauging what is appropriate in your individual workplace.

But a few generalised norms: hair - short or tied off the face, unfussy, neat; understated make up and scent; no underwear on show; moderate colours and non-strident patterns; and wear a jacket.

@buggyrunner. That's a different problem. Less about being taken seriously and more about personal safety. The stock feminist 'slut-walk' answer is 'dress how you like, it's other people with the problem'... but a more pragmatic answer might be to listen to colleagues who have direct experience.

"There is no uniform standard for women."

I disagree with that one actually. In my work I spend quite a lot of time in the reception foyers of big retailers, waiting for meetings to start. By far and away the 'uniform' of younger women in business at the moment is the black trouser suit. They're everywhere. Being a terrible old rebel that looks crap in trousers I opt for a skirt. :)

A dress, make-up and long hair are not necessarily appropriate for a working environment.

Professional sartorial standards and codes are very annoying, but, like school uniform, you will be required to adhere to them if you are to be a fully-fledged member of your company culture.

My husband shaves and puts on a shirt and tie for work.
I apply light make and a skirt and tights.

We both dress differently than we would at home and it is an effort for both of us. I don't see it as sexist, more as being professional.

Many men in my H's line of work dress casually, he chooses not to. It is the same for me. I think you inspire more professional confidence if you look professional.

As for being too young and attractive - well, that is a problem we would all like to have. Time will fix it.

I expect it depends what you're doing. Oddly enough, my brother works for a hostel too, and he was told that dressing casually was appropriate, because his clients were more likely to have bad associations with people in suits. My brother is the least professional-looking person I know, usually to be found in ripped jeans, hoodie, scruffy ponytail and badly-shaven face. However, he also works with very violent drug-users and against pimps. He's never been beaten up and seems to have the respect (or appearance of respect, which will do!) of his clients.

I am curious now what the women at his work wear - I doubt they've been told to dress smart, but it's certainly not impossible there's a double standard.

I got told to dress smart and I do it - I don't want anyone to mistake me for a student when I'm teaching. But I do think men have it a lot easier, for the reasons edithweston gives. FWIW If I turned up in a cheap black suit, I would be written off as 'not serious'. No idea why. It's stupid.

In an environment where the men wear suits women need to wear something of equivalent formality. That does not necessarily mean a suit; but I would not expect women in my office (lawyers) to turn up with:

• bare legs
• bare shoulders
• too much make up
• skirts more than three or four inches above the knee

-sparkly bits

• too much cleavage

-leather trousers/skirt -jeans

For us I think that there are broadly two looks that work: "bluestocking" and "businesswoman", together with variations in between. This still leaves plenty of scope for individual style and taste. The black trouser suit has (except in rare cases of exceptional cut)to be the most depressing and generally unflattering option available

Where do you buy stuff then, vix, and how much do you reckon it costs? I agree with you re. black trouser suits, btw. Not very comfortable either, IMO.

It's the 'too much cleavage' that bugs me. If I wear a suit, my options are either to wear a shirt two sizes too big or (I imagine) to get one made. I am not unusually big in the bust, I am a D cup. I don't think men have this sort of problem.

no they don't because they're not looked at as sexual in the same way.

it is women being responsible for men's sexuality again really isn't it? we don't wear burquas but we are supposed to be able somehow hide our breasts - not easy to do - women have breasts some women have big breasts. i find women's shirts impossible.

don't we think it's odd that the way to be taken seriously is to hide your boobs?

Black trouser suits are very depressing; there is a large office building between our home and DD's school that I walk past every day and every single person going in or out of it seems to be dressed in a black suit. So dull.

I think coloured business attire is just fine for women; better IMO to play very safe with cut and show no flesh/leg but to be a bit more daring with colour or even print.

Yes, it is odd santa. Especially when you look at the way that a man's suit is beautifully designed to emphasize broad shoulders and skim the waist - it's a really flattering piece of clothing that makes most men look good. If I wear something that emphasizes my boobs the way a good suit emphasizes a man's body, I don't look work-appropriate (I don't think).

I agree with bonsoir that wearing colours is good - purple and green, anyone?

When I was a lawyer I always wore black or navy trouser suits. Occasionally brown. I chose them precsisely because they said very little about me.

Partly to overcome my very long blonde hair, and natural...ahem...assets, which I think often took centre stage.
I wnated to be taken very seriously by judges etc and I also wanted to put across to my clients that they were the very centre of my energies.
I didn't wnat my dress to detract in any way iyswim.

To be fair, DH wears only grey or navy suits. He dresses very formally. But then he is quite young and handsome for his position and wants to foster gravitas.

Now then........ is anyone here willing to admit that just occasionally, knowing that the target is some easily-led man, they have dressed not quite as business-sober as normal and exploited their... ahem... assets in order to influence the decision? I'm pretty sure I have.

there is nothing wrong with a business suit that also emphasizes your curves and shape. Cleavage on display is not work appropriate though - and not because of being a guardian of male sexuality. I personally, as a woman, do not want to have someone's tits in my face during a business meeting, the same way I don't want to sit opposite a male colleague with his shirt unbuttoned.

Hazlenutt hit the nail on the head

I once worked with a woman who didn't wear knickers or a bra and very short skirts, made everyone very uncomfortable I wished some had had a word tbh.

big difference between not exposing your cleavage and feeling like you have to disguise your breasts though clearly.

Do you feel you have to disguise them? I have not felt that I am being taken more seriously when I wear something boxy and shapeless as opposed to fitted.

There are plenty of work clothes that are cut to flatter but are still appropriate. Sure, work shirts are often a bit of pain if you have bigger breasts, but just because the retailers cater to "average", so the shirts won't fit women with bigger than average breasts. nothing to do with disguising breasts, I'm sure people with any bigger/smaller than average body part have issues on high street.