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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

To lose more respect for MIL than I thought possible?

67 replies

iamboredwithmylife · 07/01/2012 00:44

MIL came out with this gem: ?Feminism is the worst thing to happen to women. I wish I could be a housewife but I have to work. Feminism ruined it?.

This was not a joke.

This woman is 51 years old and works full time as a nursery nurse in a school and had to go to university. FIL is out of a job and a lazy fucker. SIL is 24 and at university, they all vote, don't dress up or care much about their appearance and demand to be treated with respect.

How would that be possible without feminism? Marital rape, no job prospects, no votes, no university for one. To be a housewife is still her choice. If FIL wasn't such a lazy self entitled idiot she would be able to do this but although having a daughter and two granddaughters, she wished feminism was abolished?

The ignorance. God, I'm just so offended by the woman. DH was offended by this too but stuck up for her by saying it's only her opinion.

AIBU to have lost the little respect I did have for this woman?

I may be BU, I'm a bit miffed.

OP posts:

Julesnobrain · 07/01/2012 09:17

For me feminism equals choice and I have total respect for the woman who went before me, had those battles and won me those choices. I think your MLL is resentful of her lazy DH, you could point out if there was no feminism she would not be able to work and in Victorian times they would have ended up in the workhouse !

Haziedoll · 07/01/2012 09:22

People often say that young people have a sense of entitlement and think the world owes them a living and yet by the sound of your mil older people also have this attitude.

She is not forced to work because of feminism. Not working is a luxury that very few can afford, for some families it makes economic sense for a partner not to work because of childcare costs but this isn't the case here. It sounds as if your mil is resentful because she is financially supporting fil. She should be grateful for feminism, without feminism she would be in a worse financial position than she is now.

Marriage is a partnership, there are times when one partner will have to support the other. If people are not prepared for that eventuality I'm not sure if they should be entering into marriage. Not sure why the fil is a cocklodger because he doesn't work. So a woman can make a choice whether to work but a man doesn't have that choice?

TheSecondComing · 07/01/2012 09:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

catgirl1976 · 07/01/2012 09:59

I do agree with trois and flossie. whilst the benefits of feminism are brilliant, they way "having it all" has become expected and not a choice is not good (although not the fault or result of feminism). we end up "doing it all" instead :(. the mortgage point is very interesting too.

and as someone who will be going back to work next week leaving a 7 week old pfb, can i just state i bloody hate nicola horlicks right now?

callmemrs · 07/01/2012 10:10

Yanbu- she sounds like a right old moaner. She may well be married to a bit of a loser- but thats a separate issue. Even if he was working to potential in a full time job, that wouldnt be justification for her not working ! A relationship should be a partnership where both people are equals and don't assume that one partner should take on a role simply on the basis of whether they are the man or woman. I am astonished quite frankly. This woman is 51 - that's only 6 years older than I am. She has adult children. Why the hell wouldnt she be working?! What did she expect out of life? To be swanning around shopping and lunching while her husband works? The irony of course is that some women do exactly that!! I cannot begin to understand why a man or woman partners someone who expects a free ride.

troisgarcons · 07/01/2012 10:12

Even if he was working to potential in a full time job, that wouldnt be justification for her not working !

Why? Expectation again. Why can't one be a home-maker? Why are both expected to work?

StewieGriffinsMom · 07/01/2012 10:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dustinthewind · 07/01/2012 10:19

{grin] Exactly, SGM!

catgirl1976 · 07/01/2012 10:21

has anyone said that SGM?

StewieGriffinsMom · 07/01/2012 10:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Wamster · 07/01/2012 10:28

I've no answers; all I can say is that my mil bugs the heck out of me because she brought up a son who thought women should work AND do ALL the housework. The burden she left me with (which it took a long time to undo) makes me dislike her very much. The irony is that my fil would be willing to help!

Dustinthewind · 07/01/2012 10:31

Was trois saying that?
I think a relationship should be a partnership with respect, love and logic all playing a part. I wanted to SAH, but financially it made sense for my partner to be the one who did. So I couldn't flounce and pout and wail 'But I'm the mummy, it should be me'
Why should it be me when my partner is equally capable and I earned twice as much as him?
We have always shared out any and all household tasks according to preferences and abilities, I don't do 'wifework' we share a house and the responsibilities that go with it. Now I have teenagers, they pull their weight in the same way.

Dustinthewind · 07/01/2012 10:33

As an adult, I choose not to be a doormat or a martyr.
I cook because I love it, I do not iron because I hate it. OH irons, but hates supermarket shopping.

MardyArsedMidlander · 07/01/2012 10:33

My great grandmother had eight children, a husband who was an 'invalid' and she ran a shop ON HER OWN and did all the housework. Those who talk of a pre-feminist idyll where women could spend all day flicking a duster around and baking cakes forget that poor women have always had jobs outside the home as well.

In my grandmother's case, she was never allowed to mention her job or admit to being tired and despite the fact she brought in half the household income her money was always referred to as 'pin money'. And she had to do all the housework. If she was out working, my grandfather would even refuse to make himself a sandwich as that was 'her' job.

catgirl1976 · 07/01/2012 10:34

oh they did a bit - re-read the thread. i thought they were saying feminism had not achieved everything it needs to until there is real choice IYSWIM, rather than the current situation of women feeling pressured to do everything. but thats capitalism not feminism i think

catgirl1976 · 07/01/2012 10:37

actually maybe only flossie said that SGM - Im not sure trois or folk girl did but am juggling laptop and baby so skimming

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 07/01/2012 10:47

OP...You're being unreasonable. Not for your beliefs but because you are so smug in your feelings of being 'right'. You have no respect for your MIL, that's obvious. Doesn't take much in your little world, does it, to slip down in your estimation?

Have you the wit to speak to your MIL about this in a reasonable discussion, or just more fun for you to bitch about her here? You're offensive - do your MIL a favour and stay away from her.

StewieGriffinsMom · 07/01/2012 10:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

callmemrs · 07/01/2012 10:50

Troisgarcons- I think you misunderstood my post.
Of course one partner in a couple can be a 'homemaker' if the other partner can financially support it and both parties agree this is possible and indeed desirable. My point is that this shouldn't be a default position. Why should a woman assume, particularly at a point in her life when there are no dependent children, that as long as her husband is bringing in enough, that she has an automatic right to not work and spend her day doing as she pleases, bankrolled by hubby?? And tbh I can't imagine many couples either a) being able to afford it or b) feeling its a desirable and worthwhile way to live. I know very very few women in late 40s /50s who don't work at all- and frankly the ones I know are bored and boring!
The ops MIL isn't even in a position where it's affordable to not work anyway. Her loser husband is a separate issue. She needs to address that because it can't be good for either of them that he sits around all day. But she should address that because its not a good way to live- certainly not because she could then give up work and sit around all day! Can you not see the irony in that!

Haberdashery · 07/01/2012 10:53

Choice is great, whether you're a man or a woman. But your MIL is being unreasonable. If she had been married to a lazy underachiever pre-feminism, she'd still have had to work (or alternatively live in poverty) and still be resentful of his laziness but there would have been none of the good things today such as equal pay for equal work, the ability to easily divorce a husband you don't want to be married to and still keep your children, the ability to take a degree as a woman and use it in a job that you like and are good at. And the 'lazy' husband wouldn't be doing any cooking or cleaning. He'd be down the pub drinking whatever money he had managed to make, quite likely. BTW, if he's doing all the housework etc, he's not really that lazy is he? He just doesn't have a job.

aldiwhore · 07/01/2012 10:54

Its all a bit 'what have the romans ever done for us?' isn't it?

Feminism isn't a one hit wonder, its not a case of 'ooh we got the vote, job done' some changes have been good for women, sometimes there's a downside. I've always thought feminism is a process that's part and parcel of improving life and choice for all, and it has delivered on many levels, failed on others and still has a long way to go.

There is choice, but its not always clear. I'm a SAHM, my DH isn't rich, I chose this life, but as is life, had to sacrifice certain things too. Its not something I took lightly. I'd like to see a world where one adult could support a household with at least two children on just above minimum wage, if that happened real choice would begin for many. I agree a bar to choice is capitalism!

Its not my duty as a woman to SAH, its my choice as a woman. Had DH wanted to give up his job (I lost mine, bummer, made my choice easier) we'd have negotiated. I always wanted to SAH whilst my children were young. I don't believe that is unfeminist. I happen to be a woman is is good at caring roles, I enjoy my role. It doesn't make me less of a woman, or a feminist than those who sneer at me because I'm not proving the world wrong in some way.

Most people I know who declare themselves Feminist wouldn't assume I'm letting the side down at all, because I have choice, am not a doormat, and our circumstances meant that we couldn't split our life 50/50 exactly, but we come close, and have respect for each other.

There are a few who think I'm pathetic, a leech, someone to pity, or someone to kick because I've chosen a path in life they feel is unfeminist. Bollocks to them.

Yuuule · 07/01/2012 10:58

"Uninteresting, teetotal, no friends or social life, spends all his time reading or playing golf on the computer, cheuffers hsr around for hikes, cooks, cleans etc.."

Why is ops fil being called a 'loser husband'.?
Op finds him uninteresting but op mil doesn't (" He's a good husband though (to her)").
Nothing wrong with being teetotal.
So what if he doesn't socialise a lot? It might not suit op but as long as op mil okay with it, no problem.
And for the rest of it he seems to back-up and support her in what she is doing.
Why 'loser'?

Spuddybean · 07/01/2012 10:58

Feminism liberates men too. It means they don't have to look after women who 'choose' not to work. If however, as a family they choose between them that one should stay home looking after the family, then that is often the woman because sadly (women aren't equal yet so) she often earns much less (due to roles being valued less for 'female skills' compared to 'male skills'). (statistically this happens after 20s when children are born)

I personally feel that feminism actually liberates men more than women - not assigning them a life of responsibility to provide for a spouse.

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 07/01/2012 10:59

Hi there,

We are going to move this thread to feminism.

Best wishes
MNHQ

aldiwhore · 07/01/2012 11:01

I can't argue that my earnings were a factor in my choice, or ability to make the choice. DH was earning a lot more than me, for a lot less hours, but not sure whether that's because he's male, or rather the fact the his chosen career pays fairly well. I know there are women doing the same job as him for the same pay, and are actually more successful thanks to feminism in part... MY wages were shoite.

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