The Pharmaceutical/Health Industry and Women

[VirgoGrr]

I'm just exploring a few thoughts about how medical/health issues that affect women are making money for the pharmaceutical industry.

I've just commented on another thread about my experiences with treatment for abnormal cervical cells. At the time and afterwards, I obviously read up on HPV and what may have led to my problem and I was horrified to learn that by taking the pill, as I'd been recommended, and by choosing a new partner who had had a recent std test, I thought I was practicing safe sex. Obviously not, it's likely that I was exposed to HPV after a serious illness and this led to severely abnormal, precancerous cells. If someone had told me that I was putting my health at risk at that time, there's no way I would have been taking the pill, I would have been insisting on condoms. I had not even heard of HPV before I had an abnormal smear. This is a number of years ago, btw.

Would it be too cynical to suggest that it's beneficial for the industry to not make this simple knowledge more widely available to women because they sell contraceptive pills, the equipment for smear tests, the equipment for treatment and the HPV vaccine?

I'm sure there are lots of examples. What do you think?

I'm not sure of the financial implications of this and sorry if the subject isn't entirely relevant but after a chat with my go this morning about contraception I ran a search on a few different contraceptive pills including this one:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_clubs/397249-minipill-cerazette-specifically-and-depression-anxiety-sideeffects-a-warning-please/AllOnOnePage

and it reminded me of a few bits and pieces of Greer's on women and medicine e.t.c.

Some of these women have had long periods of their lives turned upside down by hormones doctors have told them are harmless and then been disbelieved and given antidepressants to effectively shut them up when they have complained. Unbelievable!

And cliche or not, I'm pretty sure men wouldn't be expected to put up with this for the sake of family planning and then have their mental health called into question if the pill didn't agree with them.

X post with Victoria. Glad I'm not the only one who was shocked by that thread.

Can someone please post some good links to GG and mammogram/smears issues.

ok, ignore me
found what i was looking for

So what did Germaine Greer say about mammograms and smears?

civilon, coming back late to your post, so I'll quote and reply:

'Would you say people your age make that decision because they don't think the risk of getting STIs and HIV is all that high?'

• Some do. I doubt my risk of STIs it terribly high, TBH. DH has never slept with anyone else. The reason I mentioned that we don't use condoms is because some twenty-somethings are in monogamous relationships. I'm sure some teens are too - a mate of mine has been with the same man since she was 15. It's perfectly possible to have good reasons for not using condoms even when you're young.

Also, I think if you generalize about any age group, you tend to misrepresent it. I don't know anyone who doesn't use protection when sleeping with new partners and wasn't aware it was common at all, but I expect it depends who you know and how much they tell you!

Btw, double posting, but virgo I agree we could do with more awareness. I think for people I know, Jade Goody's death was a real wake-up call (I hope that doesn't sound disrespectful, that's not my intention). I've recently had an abnormal smear and need to go back, and it was my first smear, too, so I am quite scared TBH.

I notice that my best mate, who is American, says that in her group of schoolfriends, being sent to the gynaecologist was a standard thing your mum would do with you around age 16-18, like getting you set up with a dentist, and it did make me think that is quite a good idea, to get people young so they form the habit.

So would you think in general that people in monogamous relationships use just the pill, and people not in monogamous relationships use both the pill and condoms?

I think so, though I know some people don't like the pill and therefore use only condoms. I think people who're not in monogamous relationships are very much more likely to use pill+condoms, maybe occasionally only condoms.

That's only my rather anecdotal experience though.

I just wondered really why you singled out that age group, whether it was something you'd noticed them doing that was very different from other age groups?

Obviously, there is the issue that if you are thinking about babies, as many twenty-somethings in relationships naturally will be, it'd help to be more informed about the pill and how long it can take after you come off it for your cycle to get back to normal - this is something I have noticed is not general knowledge, and rarely volunteered by GPs.

I singled out that age group because my own very dear dc will hit that age group sooner or later, and I need to know what advice they and their peers will be getting, and what the peer group norms will be.

Oh, I see.

TBH, I think I got really, really rubbish advice from both school and medics, and especially peers. Sorry, that doesn't sound hopeful! It may have changed though, I'm 27. But my cousin is just 19 and her experience seems quite similar to mine. You're taught that protection is important, but I think the thing a lot of people forget is that even if you and your boyfriend or girlfriend are only with each other, if he or she has slept with someone else before, you still need to take care.

I think it is still quite intimidating going to a GP or getting advice about safe sex, and IME GPs often don't explain things (not their job, I suppose?). So you get myths about what is or isn't safe sex because people will say 'but my GP never told me that, s/he never mentioned I couldn't do that!' when in fact there are whole hosts of things the GP hasn't mentioned.

I don't know if that helps or makes sense at all, and I don't know how representative I am of that generation. But I am sure yours will be fine because you obviously care that they should be, and that's the big thing IMO.

Thank you - you have great confidence in me and my ability to convince my dc... But they will also be affected by peer norms, and having sex with people conforming to peer norms.

There was a series on Channel 4 recently called something like Teenagers and Sex which portrayed teenagers as at it like rabbits and not generally wearing condoms. So they filmed doctors showing grossly diseased penises to teens as a warning of what could happen if they didn't use condoms. Nonetheless a lot of the teens interviewed said they didn't currently use them, so the impression given by the series was that condom use was not the norm.

Well, it would never have occurred to my mum to talk about it or even try to convince us of anything - she'd have assumed it was all taken care of by a vague 'birds and bees' talk at 12 or so, plus school. So I think you sound lovely!

I do wonder about shows like that - I mean, what teenager is going to admit they're, erm, actually not really having any sex right now?

I remember at university they did a survey and found that apparently loads of us were having huge amounts of sex with many partners, so instigated a system where you could pick up free condoms from a pigeonhole, provided by the wellfare officer. They had to discontinue it because so few people took them ... and eventually it was rather sheepishly but generally admitted that some people might have been being slightly less than truthful on the survey ...

Frankly I think most of us were having less sex than it sounds like your average couple with a newborn do, if MN is anything to go by for those stats.

I'm 28 and haven't used the pill since I was 19 and I haven't used condoms for 7 years. I only use natural family planning which is very detailed and relies on both me and my partner being careful. When I went for a smear test I was hysterically laughed at by the tester (nurse perhaps?) who ordered me to see the doctor to talk about 'real' family planning. Granted this was Ireland so not the UK/NHS system but obviously I had to have a word with her, I told her I was empowered by my choices and it was MY body. It has always worked for me and I became pregnant within 6 months of trying so pharmaceuticals are not always the way to go and in my case, much healthier.

I feel sorry for those American girls! Marched down to the obgyn, often still virgins, for invasive and unnecessary vaginal examinations. I think this habits contributes to the American female mentality of handing over their bodies to the know it all docs who then slice and dice then at will ( see c section rates there for evidence)

what the hell are the vaginal exams for Victorialucas ?

Once a year, like clockwork they visit the gynaecologist for a full rummage, from about 14 - when I was in North America they were shocked that I'd never had anything more than a smear test once every 4 years.

I found getting examined over there while pregnant extremely invasive (not to mention in my case painful) and refused after the first one.

Crikey, that's a bit harsh victoria!

The way my mate tells it, the whole point was your mum would take you when you felt you wanted to start having sex, and the doctor would talk you through your options. She never mentioned having an exam, just that you'd habitually go to a gynae for a prescription for the pill or whatever.

I do understand from her and her mum (who is a doctor) that there is real problem with the way women are encouraged to give birth in the US, but I think you are reading my comment rather differently from the way it came across to me.

Personally, I would have welcomed being taken to see a medic when I first started having sex. I had a friend whose big sister took her (in the UK) to a well-women centre and I did actually suggest (very, very nervously) to my mum when I was 18 that I'd really appreciate some company going to see the GP, but she refused and I felt quite sad about that - still do.

Cross-posted with chunky - it may be then that she never mentioned an exam because she saw it as routine. Still, I'm not sure I feel convinced it's better than our system.

I wonder why the need?? I'm 33 weeks pregnant and have no rummaging of any sort down there. I wonder what they think they can achieve by 'rummaging' through any 14 year olds bits. I guess like has been repeated the 'training' of women to see their bodies being 'controlled' by the medical profession. And yy to whoever said about giving birth in America (my only knowledge is through the US version of One Born Every Minute, its not personal) they seem to think that childbirth requires at least, an epidural and an audience of family members....and a doctor to 'deliver' the baby...doctors DO NOT deliver babies, the women who have them do.

Yes, I do feel uncomfortable about a girl under the age of consent having that happen to her.

It seems to me surely if you can't consent to sex, you can't consent to that either? I know it's not at all the same experience, but it is your body and I don't see why it'd be necessary.

My mate's partner is English and her mum and whole family keep telling her she really, really needs to try to be over here if she ever decides to have a baby!

Sorry for seeming harsh, LRD, I assumed you meant that these exams were a good thing. I agree that a trip to the docs with mum when you are a teen contemplating sex is a good idea, either side of the pond. But as far as I'm aware (mostly from US tv though) that the internals are compulsory in a 'no exam, no pill' way.

It's ok, I meant I thought yours was a harsh judgment of the situation, not harsh to me personally - so no need to apologize.

I don't think exams sound great, I just wasn't aware exams were part of the practice since my mate never mentioned them. I will now ask her if they're standard but suspect they are given what's been said.

I'm really sad to think it would be 'no exam, no pill' - that just seems awful!

'No exam, No Pill' thats awful, talk about disempowerement of girls.

From the horses mouth www.scarleteen.com/article/reproduction/your_first_gynecologist_visit

another article on the same site talks you through getting contraception, and to do that you'll need to go for a gyne exam too.