Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Flip

Original poster

Natalie Heck dead

22 replies

aliasforthis2 · 23/12/2011 00:11

Yet another death of a young woman involved in porn. Natalie Heck, aged only 27 )-:

Why on earth do people think it's "glamorous" ?

She was attacked and had her throat slit by a "punter" in 2010 , and is now dead from a brain aneurysm due to drinking. Glamorous huh....

lukeford.com/2011-12-18/savannah-gold-found-dead/

RIP x

OP posts:

Bogeyface · 23/12/2011 01:39

Some of the comments on your second link make me sick :(

Another victim :(

Fairytightsonmychristmastree · 23/12/2011 02:25

Good God!! As Bogey says some of those comments are just vile.

Very sad indeed.

thunderboltsandlightning · 23/12/2011 08:49

The industry kills them. :( It's terrible.

KRITIQ · 23/12/2011 09:02

I clicked the second link + it's NOT safe for work (or much of anything frankly - v sexually explicit,) and likely to be hugely triggering for many. Its a porn users' discussion forum from what I could make out. I wish + had eye bleach now.

Just wanted to warn folks before they click.

Porn users hardly demonstrate anything like respect for women filmed in it in life, so why would it be any different after they die. They would never have seen her as a human being but as a bunch of body parts.

She was a person though, so RIP.

StewieGriffinsMom · 23/12/2011 09:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

aliasforthis2 · 23/12/2011 12:23

Oh sorry - I should have posted a warning to that second one. It's just I was trying to ascertain if the rumours were indeed true because the first link wasn't quite sure. Those 2 are the only things I could find on google last night, but there are 'better' not as insulting links today.

Although I think that even those (porn users, agents etc) writing "RIP" etc are probably no better. They didn't help her in her life, they just wanked over her or profited from her pain. .

I think that young people should be taught the realities of the sex industry - that it eats up young vulnerable people and spits them out a shell of their former selves, probably with addictions, and often - dead. It makes me feel very lucky and blessed that I got out without addictions and alive. Surely if young people saw all the casualties they would not think that sex industry (even so called 'glamour modelling') is a good choice?

and x

OP posts:

millimurphy · 23/12/2011 16:10

Shouldn't have clicked the second link - just awful.

MNHQ

RebeccaHallsWithBoughsOMumsnet · 23/12/2011 16:19

Hi there,

We have removed the second link as we had a few reports about the contents.

Best wishes
MNHQ

lollygag · 23/12/2011 16:44

One of the problems is that girls now see this as a career choice.Unfortunately Pornography and Prostitution have been semi-legitimised by some peoples determination to use the phrase 'worker in the sex industry' instead of prostitute.It's counter productive.

KRITIQ · 23/12/2011 16:59

Thanks Rebecca for removing the link. I think it was the right thing in this instance to do.

I agree lolly that it is depressing now "mainstream" porn has become in our culture, to the degree that young women increasingly feel pressure to believe it is something benign, if not something good or even empowering for them. This applies whether it's related to their own or their partners' consumption of porn or their involvement in the making of porn. It's a huge swindle because rare are the glimpses of truth about the harm porn causes generally, but specifically for women who become involved in it.

I don't think the "normalisation" of porn is just down to some people choosing to use the term "worker in the sex industry." It is actually a factual phrase, but at least imho, is less about shaming the women than terms like hooker, whore and prostitute would be. Continuing to use words that demean and shame the people who sell sex won't make any difference to the prevalence of people selling sex. It most CERTAINLY won't be any disincentive to the powerful and wealthy men who profit handsomely from selling women.

I think the language is a red herring here.

thunderboltsandlightning · 23/12/2011 17:05

The real problem is that men think that they have a right to see women used like this lolly. Women are targeted and raped into the industry very often. It's not generally much of a choice.

Kritiq, quite a lot of women who have escaped from the sex industry would disagree with you. The language is very important indeed. The term "sex worker" disguises the abuse of women that pornstitution actually is. It does normalise it, especially for the punters and pimps and also the policy makers, some of whom think it's possible to regulate prostitution and pornography and turn them into legitimate industries.

lollygag · 23/12/2011 17:11

I don't think the language IS a red herring.I think well meaning people are having a detrimental effect on young girls perceptions.The 'Sex Industry' as a phrase ,I hope you agree,may have a certain (if misplaced) glamour about it to the impressionable.

Original poster

aliasforthis2 · 23/12/2011 20:09

Sorry about the link - it's the only two I could find last night. Should have waited til this morning for the more humane ones to show up.

It's disgusting. Really it is. The sheer number of young women who get caught up in porn, used and degraded , and then spat out again either mentally damaged, drug addicted, or dead, is unacceptable. Even one woman it's unacceptable. Apparently we are supposed to be a "civilised" society. Why then is society allowing and even normalising women being hurt and debased as 'entertainment'? It's actually really shocking when you think about it. I wish there could be as much focus and pushing of the testimonies of what really goes on in porn and the sex industry behind the 'fluff' as there is bombardment and advert of porn as 'normality'. Guess the media is on the side of what makes more money.

As for the words / labelling, I think it's best to just use the words the women themselves want to use or be referred to as. Although maybe not the words which have glamorous connotations.

OP posts:

KRITIQ · 23/12/2011 22:15

Apologies - perhaps I misunderstood your earlier post lolly. I thought you were attributing the fact that porn is so "normalised" that many young women see acting in porn as a "legitimate career choice" to the use of the term "sex worker" instead of "prostitute."

And, I believe now that I misunderstood the reason you advocate the use of prostitute over "sex worker." My concern was about the use of a term for the purpose of "shaming" women from involvement in selling sex.

I agree that "sex worker" could be seen as a way of sanitising and legitimising the objectification and exploitation of someone through the sale of sex. When I was in nursing, over 20 years ago, I had a colleague who did outreach health work with prostitutes in Kings Cross and she said that many chose to refer to themselves as sex workers. Perhaps that situation has changed, and it is tricky even when someone chooses a term to identify themselves, if that term is promoted by those who profit from exploitation of the person.

lollygag · 26/12/2011 14:06

Hi,Kritiq.
Just picked up the thread again.No need to apologise.It's just a theory of mine so it's clearly up for debate.I'm just glad you see what I was trying to say.

lights888 · 21/04/2012 10:27

Whilst the porn industry is not the most glamourous of jobs, i think you need to remember that she died during an operation for a brain aneurysm. She did not die from anything in the porn industry, just a tragic life cut short by a real and sudden killer problem. A brain aneurysm is something that can affect any person, young or old at anytime and carries a big risk of death. So rather than saying porn caueed this, maybe step back get the real facts and just agree its so sad someone has died from this.

KRITIQ · 21/04/2012 12:04

"Not the most glamorous of jobs," is rather dismissive, doncha think?

I'm not going to go reading the links again, but I do know that alcohol and drug use can exacerbate an existing circulatory abnormality so that it blocks or ruptures, causing an acute incident or even death. My dad, for example, lived with an aneuryism until he was 62 and it was only detected when he was having investigations for a separate, unrelated condition.

solidgoldbrass · 25/04/2012 12:40

This young woman's death is very sad but don';t forget that two women a week are killed by a partner or ex-partner. Couplehood and romance are constantly pushed at women as the ideal lifestyle choice, yet the single highest cause of death or injury to women (outside of accidents) is partner violence.

KRITIQ · 25/04/2012 21:51

SGB, with respect, one can deplore the murders of women AND the abuse and exploitation of women in porn. That's twice on here I've had to explain that I don't believe feminists are so simple single minded that they can't campaign on more than one issue at a time.

solidgoldbrass · 26/04/2012 10:18

Kritiq: but this poor girl's death is being used to bash the sex industry and the women who work in it. The stigmatizing and marginalizing of sex work contributes to the problems faced by sex workers when the truth is that choosing love and marriage over sex work is just as likely to lead to misery and pain.

WomanlyWoman · 26/04/2012 10:36

"the truth is that choosing love and marriage over sex work is just as likely to lead to misery and pain." Sorry, but I find that statement ridiculous. 'Choosing' (and the choice itself may not be a true one), or not choosing but being forced into, the sex industry, is far more likely to lead to
an unhappy life than choosing a more traditional lifestyle. If we are talking about violence against women, women are more at risk of that in the sex industry where they come into contact with all sorts of men who see women at best as a commodity. Choosing to live with one man, well, that depends very much upon the choice of man, but even so, it's just one man, not many, so the likelihood of violence is surely less.

skrumle · 26/04/2012 11:03

"The stigmatizing and marginalizing of sex work contributes to the problems faced by sex workers when the truth is that choosing love and marriage over sex work is just as likely to lead to misery and pain"

you are suggesting that women who work in the sex industry only face the dangers inherent in working as a prostitute or a porn actress, when in fact surely most of them are also involved in relationships with men outside their work, and are therefore just doubling-up on their risks?

Flip