My DD thinks feminists have got it all wrong

[ToothbrushThief]

So where did I go wrong?

Tonight we discussed feminism. She was very scathing. One argument we got stuck on was women priests.

Her argument for women not being priests was because their 'work' in the Church was childcare and thus suited to them being women. If they were claiming to not want this work, it was denigrating an important role. Besides mothers expect to keep their children after divorce and thus they have to expect child care roles because they've lost the right to claim they don't want a childcare role.

Are men allowed to be paediatric doctors in her view, or nurse children? Or should those roles be reserved for women? In return for this, which roles do women need to "give up" to the men?

Surely a situation where people can choose what they want to do in line with their personality is better - including women being priests if that is their desire.

when i was 18 being female had not stopped me doing anything i wanted i was on my way to uni to study maths and physics and not bothered about the gender imbalance. as far as i could see any woman could study whatever she wanted and it was the other girls free choice that they were all doing english or history or whatever.

however, i was shocked to learn that women were only first allowed to run the olympic marathon in 1984 which was within my memory... i think that each women/girl needs to find their own trigger... thankfully many of don't have experience of DV or rape or direct discrimination.

maybenow - same here. I also studies physics and had never experienced any difficulties in that sort of area (my feminism came about because of street harrassment / in the pub etc).

The real picture has only emerged for me as I've got older and found that there are real salary differences, that having a baby can scupper your career etc etc

sardine - I raised a lot of the issues you said.
In summary:
1)The childfree woman can pursue any career they like.
2)Dads can pursue any career they like (because they don't get the children in divorce) ...OK ????
3)I love my children but shudder at the idea of doing a childcare related role (she just stared at me like I have two heads)
4)Men can be teachers and nursery workers.
5) Mums should accept childcare related roles if offered them

It seemed to all stem from this church article which gave a 'compelling' reason to support the blocking of woman priests. Their theory was that women rejecting their' normal role' was like rejecting motherhood (hence reaction to 3 no doubt!)

She couldn't really answer my questions but regurgitated views without any evidence. I am used to her arguing well normally - occasionally she's a bit dogmatic about something irrational. I suspect this falls into that latter category and once she'd claimed her view she was damn well going to stick to it. I think my shock stemmed from the fact that she held such odd ideas and she argued weakly.

Update...

We've just discussed it all again. She has back tracked and said that she thinks sometimes the feminism card is used just to provoke/irritate. She believes men and women can choose the role they choose but shouldn't vexatiously argue that they didn't get a role based on their sex.

Phew. Reason prevails

Phew! That church leaflet sounds most bothersome

so just because she opposes your views on feminism you are trying to force it on her? Have you ever considered that you might have tried to force it on her?

Why not let her have her own view on it? Just because her view differs from yours doesn't mean she cannot hold it...

Have you read the whole thread riakin?

I'm glad she thought better of some of her arguments. I was going to say she sounds a lot like me as a teenager (and me now to some extent ), you can end up arguing yourself into a ridiculous position that you don't really believe, just to avoid backing down. Nothing worse at that age than having to admit you were wrong, or that there's something you didn't know/hadn't thought of! Also there's an element of being contrary and trying out having your own views, which you feel have to be in opposition to your parents' ones, otherwise how do you know they're your own? If that makes sense.

I'm sure no one is saying she can't have her own views Riakin. In fact it sounds like working out what her views are is exactly what she's doing right now.

I've read the thread yes, but am just re-iterating my position on it.

I personally just think that she is expressing herself. From my point of view it does seem a bit strange, but heck i was a person who several years ago didn't believe in a lot of what i do now.

Nobody is "grown up" at 18.

If my child said something racist, or homophobic, I would want to talk to them about it, make them see that what they were saying was wrong intolerant.

I would feel the same about sexist remarks as well.

I think teaching your children how to read things critically is very important (not that you haven't done it, you are just reminding me)

Who wrote this?
Why did they write it - what are they trying to achieve - what do they want you to come away from reading it thinking?
Are they making any assumptions in their argument - and do you agree with their basic assumptions?