Help me to help my three year old realise that girls aren't shit!

[StarsAreShining]

My son is almost four, and seems to have absorbed a lot of awful opinions and made them his own. This includes, but is not limited to, 'I don't like pink because it's for girls. I like blue',(despite having a few pink things and not noticing the colour before), 'I don't like girls. Boys are cool', 'Girls cry but boys are brave', etc etc etc.

I'm feeling really disappointed because I don't know how to deal with this. I feel like I've failed. There's just a general feeling of men being big, strong, brave, cool and doing all of the exciting stuff, while women are quiet, weak, cry and do a lot of cleaning. There's no way I want this to continue. We regularly talk about it and read books which promote equality, but it doesn't seem to sink in. I've tried, but it seems that the rest of the world has won :( I'm aware that his dad and grandad regularly say things like 'Ugh, grandad's a big girl!', and I've told him that I'm not happy with my sex being used as an insult, but I can't make him stop. We do talk about these things, and he'll happily talk about people being equal, but it doesn't seem to be sinking in.

What do I do?!?! I really struggle because I don't have any friends who share my opinions. I barely even know anybody with children, let alone children who aren't having certain behaviours pushed onto them or restricted because of their sex!

OP, I agree that it is very tough to counterbalance all the stuff that is shoved down kids' throats and then proclaimed as "natural". But I can second what Jasper said - that the dislike between boys and girls at that age is pretty mutual and doesn't necessarily mean that he won't turn into a lovely human being.

I've always pointed out sexist stereotypes where I see them (and believe me there are loads of ones that are negative for boys too) but in a jokey-taking-the-mickey way and DS doesn't seem at all harmed by it. In fact he loves to yell out "stereotype" at dumb movies / adverts etc - he thinks it's quite fun.

Just keep on doing what you're doing - modelling good behaviour and it'll seep in hopefully - that's all you can do!

I think it's very natural at this age and absolutely doesn't mean you've failed in any way. It would probably be very natural for him to think these things even if he wasn't picking up stuff from his dad and grandad. FWIW DD2 (4.5) regularly informs me that boys are silly, that she hates boyes, that all boys do is play stupid chasing games etc .

I would just carry on doing what I'm sure you are doing - eg. tell him about Joan of Arc when he says "girls cry but boys are brave"; say "lots of men like pink and wear pink shirts" when he says "I don't like pink, it's for girls" etc etc.

why deleting my message ? i just stated the obvious : it's silly to force a son playing with female toys, no wonder he refused dolls and pink clothes.

would you do the same with your daughters giving them toy cars, toy guns, toy monsters ?

thanks god he still have a father to compensate from what his mum is shoving down his throat.

Blitz, get off your high horse. The OP didn't anywhere say she "forced" her son to play with "female" toys. Why would you misinterpret her words so much? Unless of course you wanted to..

What exactly are female toys anyway? Why would a DD not want to play with a toy car? What is it about a frikkin car that makes it a boy toy? Do women not drive cars? Please explain why a car is male? I'd love to hear it..

And as for your oh-so-comforting "thanks god he still have a father to compensate from what his mum is shoving down his throat." all I can say is - thank god the son has a wise mother to compensate for all the crap people like you are shoving down his throat...

Blitz, your agenda looks pretty transparent here and it's not about providing any kind of constructive information or advice to the OP. Saying her actions constituted abuse of her child that she could be sued for? What a crock.

On a more relevant note, I'm not convinced that all kids at nursery age are "naturally" anti the opposite sex. My worry is that with increasingly rigid gender stereotyping in toys, clothing, books, etc., it adds unnecessary pressure on both boys and girls to confirm to a defined (by the market mostly!) identity that can constrict their natural abilities and restrict the development of their interests and aspirations.

No one is advocating that boys be made to be feminine or girls made to be masculine. It's only about allowing them to be children, to grow, to learn, to experience, to achieve, without having it drummed into them at every turn that

A. Boys do this, girls do that and you have to conform or you will be a pariah forever.

B. To be a "proper" boy you can't be like or do anything associated with being a girl, because girls are not as "good" as boys.

Messy I think what Blitz is getting at is he shouodn't be indoctrinated. If he wants to be play with boys toys then let him, he doesn't need to be encouraged to play with girls toys. FYI a car can be boys toy because sportscars are typically associated with rich and powerful men, as are vintage cars, musclecars etc

KRITIQ I'm not having a dig but you must have been raised in a different era. When I was at nursery age EVERY boy and girl was anti the opposite sex, no joke or exxageration here

As for the last part of your post then OP can be at fauly when her boy is called a poof, fag etc for wearing a pink top or liking girl things because his "alpha male" peers knows he doesn't conform

i'm simply saying the kid knows better and if he likes toy trucks and toy guns well welcome to reality, that's exactly what every other male kid does !

and my daughters never play with toy trucks, sorry, they like dolls, pink stuff and any other usual "girly" toy as their female friends at school.

besides, i feel it's pretty pointless to force a so called "gender neutral" playground on kids as outside your house anything else is strictly "gendered" and rightfully so.

feminism doesn't mean feminizing male kids, and the OP's son seems to be pretty clear about it ... he likes male toys, he loves his father, he says girls are rubbish... who can blame him as long as his mother daily tries to indoctrinate him on feminism and gender-neutralism ?

and i laugh at the idea of the school boss hearing the mother wanting gender-neutral toys ... hahaha ... get a life.

He might hate women more if he's constantly indoctrinated with feminism if he doesn't like it

"I think what Blitz is getting at is he shouodn't be indoctrinated."

I think what the OP is also getting at is that he shouldn't be indoctrinated. Our views simply differ on what that indoctrination is. Is it any more indoctrinating to "force" a girl to play with fairies, dolls and dress in pink than it is a boy? Because that's exactly what is happening today..

"FYI a car can be boys toy because sportscars are typically associated with rich and powerful men" - that's my point! Boys liking cars isn't innate or instrinsic - but entirely cultural and based on role-modelling.

gender stereotyping is indeed part of the education system but it's simply a sort of "uniform" in the end ... every societies have these "uniforms", "masks", and much more, but when the kids grow up they're pretty much free of doing as they please and dressing as they like, to be hetero or to be gay or lesbian or bisex ... no matter what kind of toys they've played at kindergarten or if the mother forced them to wear pink suits.

forcing a neutral-genderness on kids will only confuse them and make them suffer, unless they're gay, but talking with gays they all told me they liked opposite sex toys even when very young, so once again as i said before "the kid knows better" and there's not much we can do about it.

ask any technical men he will tell you he had tons of Lego when kid, and plenty of other toys requiring analytical skills ... i see the same pattern in my sons and daughters, no matter if i try with Lego, my daughters disdain Lego while my sons can't live without Lego.

who am i to force dolls and pink suits on my sons ?
let them play, they're just kids !

Davedavidson, What's not to like about feminism?

Blitz mum Really? You think playing with toys the marketing departments of large companies have designated one 'female' in order to sell more will make him gay???

Bloody he'll. What does my meccano obsession as a child say about me then?

indoctrination : frankly i see this phenomenon more targeting girls rather than boys.

fairy tales, barbies, and plenty of other sh... , and yes all for marketing purposes and of course to further push the concept that females are a sexual object and their only skill is their beauty and their sexual attractiveness.

BUT .. it's still just a game, and if the kids aren't stupid they can spot the difference between games and reality and one day between marketing, propaganda, politics, and much more.

"forcing a neutral-genderness on kids will only confuse them and make them suffer" - how on earth can giving your kids a wide range of activities to choose from possibly be bad for them?

Blitz - you can only choose between what's on offer. What's on offer to our kids today is limited. Monster trucks for boys, princess pink for girls. That's not choice. That's indoctrination.

If the boy / girl gender differences were as natural as you seem to think they are, there would be no need for them to be so clearly marketed and forcefully fed to us would there?

Exactly, let them play while they are young and decide when they are older

@slug : almost anything we consume nowadays has been carefully planned and designed by marketing departments, the only escape is raising your antennas and be informed and have a critical thinking and analytical skills and a big dose of skepticism, all skills that are not tought at school unfortunately and that some people just cannot learn or digest properly.

either you think with your head, or somebody else will think for you, as simple as that.

if all girls in a classroom dress with miniskirt due to peer pressure, fashion, and other silly reasons, well sorry but they better grow a brain rather than blaming all the wrongs of our society !

may we like it or not, our kids are usually what their friends are !
no matter what mum and dad say.

Blitz, David, you seem to be advocating just "accepting" bullying as the norm. You can't beat 'em, so just join 'em. If a couple of not very macho boys end up getting beaten up or labelled as gay, that's just hard cheese. If boys who actually are gay are ostracised, well, who cares, eh? It's more important to conform to the herd mentality than to encourage young people to aspire and achieve their full potential.

You also seem to be very optimistic about children's media savvy abilities - that they can see though all the bullshit and none of the sexualisation of girls or hypermasculanisation of boys will make a jot of difference to their futures. Girls will reject the prettification and become astrophysicists and surgeons if they really want to and boys will become fashion designers and nursery nurses if they really want to.

Slug, you played with mechano, and you're female? How dare you. You must be completely screwed up. I adored my brother's toy farm equipment while he liked dressing my dolls. We both grew up to be complete psychopaths, of course. [hgrin]

Actually I slightly take offense at the idea that critical thinking and analytical skills aren't taught in the classroom. I used to take great pleasure in pointing out to my mostly male students the inherent sexism in much of the crap that came out of their mouths stuff they came up with.

And on the subject of boys and their precious egos surely it is time that we stop pandering to them and make them realize that the probability is they will have a female boss at least once in the future? That female boss would have probably played with girls toys too unless they are gay apparently

KRITIQ I used to be a maths teacher now I work in IT. It's the next best thing

i work in a technical fields and i can tell you female bosses are nowhere to be seen and your math students will probably never see a single one unless they move to sales and marketing.

bullying : the only way in my opinion is moving the kids in another school.

but if a male kid is bullied because he acts like a "sissy" the last thing that will improve his situation is making him play with dolls and pink stuff !

imagine his confusion : mum tell him that dolls are good and dressing pink is gorgeous, while anybody else lough at him calling him names.

then the troublemaker mum goes to the school teachers and ask for neutral gender BS ... fostering even more his kid's alienation and confusion.

I work in a technical field an I am a female boss.

@Kritiq : full potential is up to the kid, most of the brightest kids often show up their skills when very young, no matter if in a suburb school or in whatever godforsaken location ... you can help them improving even more but you can't "program" them like they were a computer !

it seems to me some mums here have this weird idea that it's possible to "make" a child's identity especially starting very young.

sorry but i see this as a cruel and fruitless experiment, if you're born round you don't die square.