Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Flip

Original poster

feminism has failed women

25 replies

sallymonella · 23/09/2011 13:39

This is the title of the discussion going on at the moment on the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2. Anyone else heard it? What do you think?

My first impression is that most people don't appear to know what feminism is.

OP posts:

TrillianAstra · 23/09/2011 13:39

I thought Radio 2 did music.

TrillianAstra · 23/09/2011 13:40

By "failed" do they mean "done many amazing things but not everything, yet"?

Lessthanaballpark · 23/09/2011 13:41

Oh god, that sounds ominous - I'm sure the Jeremy Vine treatment will be full of Daily Mail type misunderstandings of what feminism is, but maybe I'm being prejudiced - will have a listen....

BelleDameSansMerci · 23/09/2011 13:42

Oh FFS... I despair.

Lessthanaballpark · 23/09/2011 13:46

Trillian - or maybe they mean "failed" as in "been totally misrepresented, vilified, and resisted but nicely repackaged to resell old sexist bullshit under the heading of 'empowerment'"?

edd1337 · 23/09/2011 14:48

Wonder how? It's done the world of good

WoTmania · 23/09/2011 15:45

I switched off because I knew I'd end up swearing a the radio.

MooncupGoddess · 23/09/2011 15:52

TheCrackFox · 23/09/2011 15:57

As soon as Jeremy Vine comes on I switch the radio off. I can't stand his programme.

Trippler · 23/09/2011 15:58

I think feminism has given women a lot, but I find in my life that if I'm ever stymied, it's not by women who don't know about feminism, it's by men who have not been taught the same as many of us have.

eg that women don't invite rape by dressing provocatively: men rape.
that sharing domestic duties is not achievable by waiting to be told what to do by a woman.
etc

I would like to see more men being brought up to consider viewpoints like the above (and others, obviously) and not having to be told them in a disbelieving tone by a woman when they are in their thirties.

WoTmania · 23/09/2011 16:38

from his blurb about it before hand it's one of those women who work and do everything around the house and blame this on feminism. Like said I switched off (had RL, fun stuff to do)

VictorGollancz · 23/09/2011 16:41

Well, feminism hasn't thrown Jeremy Vine from the top of a very high tower, so 'failure' wouldn't be an altogether inaccurate accusation...

but aside from that it's done me an awful lot of good. I might toast it with some gin.

Catitainahatita · 23/09/2011 17:09

MooncupGodess: you gave me a good giggle there!

SybilBeddows · 23/09/2011 17:15

'one of those women who work and do everything around the house'

Because of course feminism is campaigning for women to do all the housework. One of the movement's major goals, isn't it? Or did I get that wrong....

Catitainahatita · 23/09/2011 17:15

It's bizarre though really; that the movement and political philosophy that is feminism and which fights tooth and nail for improvements to women's lives is constantly berated (at least it seems like it too me) for "failing" women. When in fact the only thing holding it back is the resistance of the patriarchy to change.

(Preaching to the converted here I know, but...) Feminism hasn't failed women; patriarchal society has failed women and continues to do so every day: promising us equality and that "we can have it all" while simultaneously avoiding creating the circumstances in which women could actually enjoy equality.

Catitainahatita · 23/09/2011 17:17

And then convincing us, that our failure to enjoy equality is somehow our own fault. [head explodes]

Right I'm going back to work before my keyboard catches fire.

StewieGriffinsMom · 23/09/2011 17:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheCrackFox · 23/09/2011 17:30

He's not actually stupid but over the years he has done a ver good job of convincing me that he is.

catsrus · 23/09/2011 17:33

life's too short to waste listening to Jeremy Vine - I now turn over to another station when I hear his voice. I found most of the 'discussions' on there pretty uninformed and so very annoying.

StewieGriffinsMom · 23/09/2011 17:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Trippler · 23/09/2011 17:47

I should imagine he has fully cottoned onto the fact that stupid sells. I wonder what his salary is?

Lessthanaballpark · 23/09/2011 18:12

Just listened to it. Oh FFS. The pro-women anti-feminist (surely an oxymoron) and the feminist are actually in agreement with each other but the former just doesn't want to use the word "feminism" because it is too "toxic" and is associated with man-hating.

Isn't that the whole point? That the campaign to turn feminism into a dirty word has been waged by those that have been against it from the beginning? And to give up the F word is to believe the shite that those nasty little trolls have fed us.

And surely the idea that women's increased workload (managing home AND family) is the fault of feminism is kind of missing the point. The solution isn't to roll back women's involvement in the workplace but to increase men's involvement at home. Does that not occur to anyone? If Jeremy weren't such a waste of brain he might have pointed that out. But no, because it seems women are still being asked to make the choice between parenthood and career in a way that men aren't.

Not less feminism, MORE feminism, that's the answer.

KRITIQ · 23/09/2011 21:20

How the heck did they find anyone to come on his show to speak "for feminism?" Gah, I can't stand him. DH calls him Jeremy Swine.

Yes, his faux gormlessness is so insincere.

If it's any consolation, whether he's talking about fire safety or dog toys (honest), I've spent most of the time listening to him with this look on my face.

Grumpla · 23/09/2011 21:22

I'm no man-hater, but I make an exception for Jeremy Vine.

ThereBeBolloX · 23/09/2011 21:47

Isn't it funny htat everyone wants to blame feminism, for the fact that men steadfastly resist doing their fair share of domestic work.

Now call me logical, but I would have thought that that's the fault of um... men. I'm not entirely sure by what process feminism stops men accepting that picking up their own shit and contributing to the comfort and cleanliness of their own homes, is their job, not the job of the person in the house with the womb.

Flip