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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Name and praise : costa

55 replies

BlingLoving · 20/09/2011 20:49

I just registered myself on costa's website and under title they had only two options : mr or ms. I am impressed. Particularly in a week where I have received yet another card addressed to mr and mrs dhname. And from a friend who also did not take her dh name!!!

OP posts:

WilsonFrickett · 21/09/2011 00:18

Ms, Ms, always Ms. I still remember the moment when someone told me I could use it for the rest of my life and no-one could tell if I had a husband. I was 14 and it was a general knowledge quiz in a Classical Studies class. What power and freedom to know that I could have a title all of my own! It was definitely one of 'those' moments.

I have been happily married for 11 years last week, I still use Ms and I still use my maiden name. And I still like ticking the Ms box on a form.

frumpyq · 21/09/2011 02:27

My mother used Mrs even though she was divorced in the 60's.

Questioning the tradition is fine but in the end it should all be about choice.

TrillianAstra · 21/09/2011 08:22

Where does this imaginary requirement to provide choice end?

3 options? 4? 8? 25?

LeggyBlondeNE · 21/09/2011 09:05

As a married woman called Dr MyOwnName I loathe the usual 3 options for obvious reasons. I am not a man (Mr), I am not unmarried (Miss) and I am not Mrs MyOwnName, that would be my stepmother. (Neither am I Mrs HisName, the only person with that on their passport is my mother-in-law). If they're not going to provide Dr/Rev/Lord/Lady etc then they should at least provide Ms for those of us who need it. And if they're only going to provide one male and one female option then of course it should be Ms.

As someone said above, they clearly don't care what your marital status or work-related titles might be, so only ask the minimal information and they've done so correctly. Well done them.

KRITIQ · 21/09/2011 10:56

How can anyone be offended by being addressed by their First Name and Last Name?

GothAnneGeddes · 21/09/2011 13:12

KRI - Don't mind first and last name, but I do find it odd when call centre people call you by your first name, it's just seems oddly intimate to me.

startail · 21/09/2011 13:29

Mrs is fine, but mr and mrs DH name

Please just Mr and Mrs surname!!

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 21/09/2011 17:24

Agree Start.

Obviously Mrs defines me as married or was married at some point - but it's a choice I alone made to use the term. I have no problem with acknowledging that I am married (most of the time, he can be an arse from time to time ), but what I do have a problem with is being denied that choice by some unknown person who believes that lack of choice to somehow be in my interest.

So, by all means have Ms but provide other choices as well for those of use who prefer another title, whatever that may be, and don't claim it as some sort of feminist victory.

Beachcomber · 21/09/2011 18:04

It is of course possible to be a feminist and use Mrs.

I think the point is more that Miss/Mrs have misogynistic connations, women as chattel and all that.

Therefore it is not a feminist act to use Mrs or change one's name but one act alone does not a nonfeminist make.

BTW I use the French equivalent of Mrs and I changed my name so I am not having a go at anyone. I was just surprised by the 'can't I be a feminist and use Mrs posts'.

I am a radical feminist who calls herself Mrs, I just accept that the act of calling myself Mrs is not consistent with my politics. It is not a feminist action, but neither does it define my feminism.

HeavyHeidi · 21/09/2011 19:31

It's different in France thought, I as an adult woman am always addressed as Madame (or Frau in Germany), doesn't matter if I'm married or not.

As long as there are people who insist that they should be called Mrs, there will be people asking me if I am married or not, i.e am I Mrs or Miss. And I don't really want to be asked. So yes, i do like that there is Ms and Mr. Or there could be Mrs and Mr, like in many other countries, where the equivalent of Miss is for young girls only.

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 21/09/2011 19:38

I'm surprised to hear that - my french friend was very definitely a Mademoiselle until she married. Is it an age thing? If so, being conferred a title based on my age would irritate me far more than the Mrs/Ms/Miss.

lostinafrica · 21/09/2011 20:09

Maisie, you insist on the right to choice so that you can give false information?

And what about those poor men, denied the same choice? I suppose we could call them Mstr if they're not married!

The right to choice to reveal superfluous bits of information about yourself is an odd one, but I suppose as a title is so connected to your name it can feel personal, part of your identity to some.

I took my DH's name and called myself Mrs. Think I'd insist on Ms now, though. Actually, when I first came across the title Ms, it was explained to me as something for divorced women as they can't use Mrs or Miss comfortably any longer!!

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 21/09/2011 21:08

I insist on the right to choose so that I can do what I want with my choice, yes. And these 'poor men' can do what they want with their choice too - nothing to stop them being Lady or Rev if they so choose!

It's not the title I feel strongly about - although I'm happy to be married to DH, chose to take Mrs and will happily use it - it's the fact that I'm being denied a choose to use the title of my choice by some web design team in some big corporation. I'm old enough and ugly enough to make my own choices in life to suit my feminist agenda - no-one elses - and don't like being told that I can only have Ms just as other women don't want to have to choose between Mrs and Miss. I can totally get that, and completely respect their choice.

Ms was the standard term for divorced women aeons ago, wasn't it! I remember it well....

Lessthanaballpark · 21/09/2011 21:10

Surely having the choice between "Mr / Ms" is a bit redundant if the "Male / Female" box has already been ticked?

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 21/09/2011 21:19

I think someone made the point earlier about using a title out of politeness, rather than just addressing a customer by their first name

AlfalfaMum · 21/09/2011 21:20

I'm with the OP on this.. I don't like that my title can change according to marital status when my husband's does not, for that reason I've used Ms since I was 16 and continued to do so after my wedding. I don't think it's right that women should be defined by marital status while men are not.

AliceWyrld · 21/09/2011 21:29

What about my choice not to be confronted by sexism when carrying out minor tasks? That's my choice, but I'm being denied it too often.

TrillianAstra · 21/09/2011 22:13

Asking someone to tick Mr/Ms takes the place of a male/female box, I think.

TrillianAstra · 21/09/2011 22:14

If the options are Mr/Ms then women are being given exactly as much choice as men.

It is completely fair and even and equal.

That is what feminism is all about, isn't it. to have things between men and women to be fair and equal?

sprogger · 21/09/2011 22:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AlfalfaMum · 21/09/2011 23:11

Just nipping back in to clarfiy I got married at 29, I'm worried that my post above gives the impression I married at 16

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 22/09/2011 09:01

How is being given the choice to choose being confronted by sexism? It isn't. Tick Ms, and be done with it. Those of us who freely choose to tick another box are just as entitled to make a different choice to the one you made. It's important that women (and men) recognise and respect that those who make different choices are still as valid - that to me is the essence of feminism, not being shoehorned into someone else's (male or female) narrow or personal definition of feminism.

Having the choice is what is important to me.

I'm going to hide this thread now - I supposed to be working from home today, and I know if I don't I'll just keep coming back to check this thread and will get nothing done!

AliceWyrld · 22/09/2011 09:10

Maisie the choice is really important to me too. I want the choice to be able to register for a website, fill in a form etc without being treated in a sexist way.

Xiaoxiong · 22/09/2011 10:27

I agree that the choice is important. I use Ms to clarify that I haven't taken my husband's name, but I'm not unmarried, as I am very happy for it to be known that I am married to DH. I did try to convince him we should both take each other's names but we never got around to it. Our kids will have both our names though.

I don't think of myself as Mrs [mylastname] - that's what my mother and grandmother were called - and ticking Miss [mylastname] on a box meant that DH wasn't allowed to come into an appointment with me once as they thought we weren't married.

TrillianAstra · 22/09/2011 10:46

If the choice is so important why don't men have multiple versions of "Mr" to indicate their marital status?

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