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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The reaction of some men to intelligent women on University Challenge.

70 replies

NarkyPuffinLovesDiane · 07/09/2011 15:45

Here and

here.

Please discuss and/or link to any good articles.

OP posts:
edd1337 · 07/09/2011 22:23

I'm not enforcing such behaviour nor am I guilty of it myself. i'm just saying it's what it comes accross like. Look in the youtube comments section on feminists to get what I mean

I'm not pissed at all, why would I be?

sprogger · 07/09/2011 22:23

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smallwhitecat · 07/09/2011 22:25

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edd1337 · 07/09/2011 22:26

There's a false dichotomy there smallwhitecat. I don't see you throwing personal attacks at me to be helpful either

I made it quite coheerant in my post what I meant

smallwhitecat · 07/09/2011 22:29

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edd1337 · 07/09/2011 22:32

Goodnight

BobBanana · 07/09/2011 22:38

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BobBanana · 07/09/2011 22:41

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ComradeJing · 08/09/2011 04:17

Could it be that girls do well at school because they are generally surrounded by positive role models in older girls who do well, get good results and go on to university, female teachers and supportive staff who expect and encourage them to do well? Where as at university there are vastly more male staff and there is less expectation to succeed? I don't know, I only have experience of school, not Uni.

Horrible for the two women in the links. I just don't understand the need to rip down someone successful.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 08/09/2011 10:50

Yes, I think that probably does have an effect, Jing.

I notice something very simple at university: (or at mine, anyway, where we mark them on oral performance in seminars (and tbh the mark is just a carrot; the main benefit they get is testing out ideas, and without that they disadvantage themselves in essays). There will be a seminar discussion. Most men will happily interrupt or talk over someone else if they are keen to speak. Not very obviously, of course - you'd barely notice it unless you were watching. It is just enthusiasm, and that is good. Many women, though, wait for a pause or a silence before they start to speak.

Inevitably, this means that men speak more than women, and I tend to have to intervene and ask 'Sarah, what's your view?' or similar such directed questions. This means, effectively, that I end up targeting mostly female students. I am a young woman and a student myself, so I don't think I'm hugely intimidating. But I can see exactly why some students feel picked on. It's really hard to know exactly what to do. I think being a woman student can be so full of different pitfalls, it is very difficult to work out how to get the most out of it all. I end up wanting to say 'look, who spent 19 years telling you to be polite and not speak out of turn - forget it!'. But the fact is, they have got that message, and socially, they will still get judged for the behaviour the teaching system would reward.

TheSmallClanger · 08/09/2011 11:19

Sprogger, what's with the "er" - what did you disagree with?
No aggression here, I'm just interested in this debate.

LRD, you've made another good point there. In many situations, a woman or girl who states her arguments confidently is seen as pushy or arrogant, whereas a man or boy is just seen as assertive. University seminars are one of the few places where this rule really shouldn't apply, and doesn't have to.

ComradeJing · 08/09/2011 12:14

YY LRD. How many times were you told at school to sit nicely, not speak out of turn, to say yes and do as you're told? Great for a teacher who wants a nice quiet class. Rubbish for anyone (though especially girls) who needs a bit of pushiness to get ahead in life.

Totally off topic but I remember a few years ago a school banned putting your hand up to encourage students to speak up. Wonder if that would help women in the situation you mention.

edd1337 · 08/09/2011 12:19

That's a weird one there smallclanger. Of all people i've met i've never ever heard a female described as arrogant. Loud and dominant in conversations maybe, though rare. Certainly not arrogant though

WakeMeUpWhenSeptemberEnds · 08/09/2011 12:35

^Some men see the anger and hate in their eyes and think they need to lighten up. They also assume they are ALL lesbians and thus don't get a good dickin

Sometimes it's the way men think, I witness it all the time with comments about what they'd do to a woman, it's male instinct to procreate

It will never change^

It will never change while other men 'witness' this 'all the time' and decide that it's just a 'male instinct'.

Wowsers - what an appalling point of view you hold.

edd1337 · 08/09/2011 12:44

Ok then expert, you tell me what it is then?

TheSmallClanger · 08/09/2011 12:58

I've already offered an interpretation, but you rejected it.

You've gone some way to proving my point: when faced with assertiveness or insight from a woman, you resort to thinly-veiled name-calling and toilet talk, in order to drag down the level of conversation, and by association, her.

edd1337 · 08/09/2011 13:02

What are you talking about? Your insight is welcome. You're assertivness I care not for as most people i've met are assertive, why are you different?

I simply gave my POV and you decide to get upset

NarkyPuffinLovesDiane · 08/09/2011 14:52

Don't you feel special SmallClanger? You're being allowed to contribute.

OP posts:
TheSmallClanger · 08/09/2011 15:16

Gosh, I do feel really special now you've pointed that out.

Edd, you're doing it again. I'm disagreeing with you, so you are using the tactic of belittling to try and discredit me. I'm a woman, so I can't just disagree with you and be rational at the same time. It's all because I'm upset, not just that I think you are wrong and need to be challenged.

You are also derailing, and drawing the discussion round to the topic of you, rather than the topic at hand.

edd1337 · 08/09/2011 15:21

Lets get back on topic then if you feel i'm derailing (though you seem to have attacked me first). Disagree with me all you like, this is a public forum after all

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