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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

'It's OK to be single.' I think that's probably the most important message feminism has to offer.

88 replies

solidgoldbrass · 28/08/2011 01:27

That's just It's OK To Be SIngle. It's not 'You can't be a feminist if you have a male partner', nor is it 'Feminism means hating men and never having sex with one again.'
But if you accept and understand that It's OK To Be Single you put up with less crap from men who think the worst thing they can threaten you with is leaving and rendering you single.

OP posts:
BooBooGlass · 29/08/2011 10:25

I've thought about this a bit more and I've realised that the assumption is that if you're single you're either not happy or must be looking for a man. I was a single parent for 5 years and tbh was very happy (in the respect I didn't want a man, wasn't looking, the day to day life of single parenthood is obv very hard) and only recently I was talking to a friend who knew me very well at the time who said 'but of course, you wanted to meet someone'. Well NO, I didn't. She seemed to think I was miserable on my own. I do wonder if that's because I didn't have a proper relationship til i was in my twenties? I don't think it's particuarly great to start going from relationship to relationship in your teens. I didn;t have that so I got self sufficient I suppose. Now I am in a relationship, he knows I am very happy with him, but that I don't need him. That does sound awful doesn'tit? But it makes me feel far more secure to know I don't have all my possibilities and securities hanging on one other person. I'd be fine if he upped and left tomorrow. I wouldn;t want to go out and find someone else. Because I'm with him because I love him, not to tick some 'in a relationship' box.

TrillianAstra · 29/08/2011 10:33

An important message yes but not the most important message.

MooncupGoddess · 29/08/2011 20:31

I think that the most important message is 'It is not OK to be raped or treated like shit by a man', but yes, 'Being single is fine' is v. important too.

I have no idea to what extent the urge to pair bond is innate and to what extent it's implanted by culture; but in any case I've never had it and am very happy being single. Though as a single woman in her 30s I feel pretty unusual, almost all my friends are now in serious/married relationships.

HereBeBolloX · 29/08/2011 20:58

D'you know, the problem with the messaeg "it's not ok to be treated like shit by a man" is that too many women don't recognise being treated like shit, as being treated like shit. They have been groomed to accept it as normal, not shit.

MooncupGoddess · 29/08/2011 21:14

That is very depressing, HereBeBollox, but a read of the threads in the Relationships section suggests you are spot on.

startAfire · 29/08/2011 23:25

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HereBeBolloX · 30/08/2011 08:12

Yes, actually on many many, mumsnet threads, the loud and clear message is "it's OK to be treated like shit by a man". And of course, in RL too.

exoticfruits · 30/08/2011 08:15

All the mumsnet threads I have seen always say 'he is treating you like shit leave him.'

startAfire · 30/08/2011 08:20

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ThePosieParker · 30/08/2011 08:24

I'm not sure if 'single' is such an ominous thing though, but childless seems much more frowned upon.....poor single childless woman, she needs to find someone soon to have kids, it's so sad. (I admit to also thinking like this in the past)

Also I think choosing to opt out of a bad relationship sooner rather than later is far less damaging to children. (Yes, I know I am a turn coat) So perhaps a message that a quick break up is better when it begins to get shit rather than a long drawn out break up where people destroy eachother.

ThePosieParker · 30/08/2011 08:25

The fear of being a single mother for most is not the 'shame' but the poverty. And we, women, tend to want to meet our financial needs sooner than our emotional, which is also that of our children.

cornishblue · 30/08/2011 08:42

I agree with you completely, in principle. However the prospect of becoming single after many years of partnership and parenthood can be quite terrifying.

Not because it's frightening being alone necessarily - during the most miserable, pre-split part, alone can seem like an attractive prospect - but because of the life that awaits afterwards, which could offer little freedom due to round-the-clock childcare responsibilities, partial or total financial dependency on the exH and low self-esteem after years at home with babies and young children.

For women in this situation, however mentally liberating it might be to finish a bad relationship, in practical terms being single is complicated.

startAfire · 30/08/2011 08:48

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AliceWyrld · 30/08/2011 09:06

Re the financial and responsibility thing, I agree that its overplayed. The number of women I know who are left to all the responsible childcare (their partner may do a bit of playing Hmm) and whose husbands begrudge them every penny and they are left trying to make ends meet with what they can bring in themselves and they are responsible for doing housework that increases with the presence of the other person. And they know it's a shit situation. But they don't leave because they think they'll be worse off. But they'd have one less person to care for, and the state would step in (I know not perfectly, but still potentially, at the moment it isn't at all) to make the man take some financial and time responsibility for the children.

But the message they keep hearing is it would be worse for the woman. Funny that Hmm

Thanks for your posts on this SAF, I always find your take on single mothers so enlightening.

startAfire · 30/08/2011 09:10

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BodyUnknown · 30/08/2011 09:12

I don't know why people are so frightened of single mother-hood. It really isn't the end of the world. It's a million times better than being in a shit relationship waiting for the next crisis, being taken for granted and walked all over.

So I agree, 'it's ok to be single' is definitely an important message. I do not understand women putting up with shit just because they have children. That's an even better reason to quit, in many cases.

Must say though, I recently became a single mother, and the stigma is unbelievable! It can be hurtful. But I wouldn't change this for the world, and having no savings/income is no barrier to leaving a shit husband - that is what benefits are for, a safety net to catch people who need it, for a short time. You don't have to subsist on income support forever just because you've kicked your useless partner out, single mothers are not destined for a life of poverty either. It annoys me, this attitude, among women who ought to know better. Use your entrepreneurial spirit, or whatever, and DO something about it.

startAfire · 30/08/2011 09:13

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ThePosieParker · 30/08/2011 09:24

I live in a nice house, in a nice area and my dcs have access to good schools. My DH's income covers us, we are paying a £800 a month family debt off. This is for the next year. I don't earn anything.

If I kicked him out today how would afford to stay here? We don't have enough to have two properties and I couldn't live elsewhere, we can't sell the house as neither of us(due to massive debt/financial crap) could get a rent or mortgage.

So DH is going to therapy!!

WinduhPAYNE · 30/08/2011 09:33

SAF, I liked the Jane story:) Although I think that many women in 'Jane's' position use their children as the barrier to leaving. "The children need their Dad" Even if Dad pays them little attention and is really quite aggressive towards them!

sadandwary · 30/08/2011 09:58

exellent posts SAF.
Bodyunknown....yep youre right..there is a big stigma-i think its worse now than it was[say]10 years ago.

id rather be in the posision i am in now than the posision i was in when i was married.
ive been a single parent for years and ive always been a single parent to my youngest.
origannly i was scared of being a single parent but ive found a lot of strenth in it.
origannly i had a lot of thought like"i cant do this/i cant do that and what will happen if..."!...they soon went as i knew that there was going to be no such thing as "cant"...i had to do it.
i was in a posision at that time where i had no one to help me with absouloutly anything....and things did seem a bit grim.
one of the first hurdles come along when my baby was a few weeks old..colic.every night at eleven..my dc screamed and screamed for two hours.
i thought"omg.im not going to be able to get through this"-then decided that since i had to im going to have to find ways round things.
so every night when my dc screamed i sat her in her baby chair-rocked her chair with my foot[she didnt like being held]....and made curtains![never done it before]
this was actually thereputic and i ended up with curtains for all my windows.
i only made the curtains when she screamed...so turning a horrible experiance into a not so horrible one.[ive always found ways round things since then]
the next hurdle came when i realised that things was diffent with my baby...which took me down the sn path and many years of fighting.
looking back to them days of curtain making to now...being a single parent has taught me so much and i have gained so much strenth from it.
if i had my time again would i still do it?its been difficult but yep-id do it again.

sparky

AliceWyrld · 30/08/2011 09:58

I like the Jane story. That is exactly what I was trying to describe.

Posie, if that's a serious question, I'd suggest seeking advice. Because there are protections etc.

MooncupGoddess · 30/08/2011 11:30

Love the curtain-making story! And great to hear all the empowering arguments re single motherhood.

I would just add that 'not allowing men to treat you like shit' refers not just to men with whom one's in a sexual relationship, but all men - family members, bosses, colleagues, officialdom, men who think that groping you in a bar is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, etc.

stripeybump · 30/08/2011 11:42

Hijack - sparky what an ace idea making curtains while child screaming, making a difficult experience into a useful one! That really takes strength, but it must have been so good for you on so many levels.

fluffles · 30/08/2011 12:01

i put my own very equal and happy marriage down to the fact that DH and i were both long-term single and very independent when we met, neither of us have a history of bouncing from one relationship to another, we both know that we're together because we choose to be and we'd both be ok single.

i don't deny that we will face hard times in the future and i don't intend to bail out of the marriage the minute we hit a hard point, but on the other hand, we both have clear expectations of being treated with respect by the other.

Hardgoing · 30/08/2011 12:05

The trouble is, a shit father in a marriage often turns out to be as much of a shit afterwards, leaving the single mother with all the child-care responsibilities and economically badly off. On the other hand, a great dad is an asset in a parenting situation, during or after the relationship.

I am on my own a lot due to my husband working away, so know I can hack it on my own. I have also been single on and off throughout my twenties, and always ended relationships that weren't right for me. However, I am much more reluctant to just go it alone now I've had the children, as we are entwined anyway, and given that I would expect my husband to do 50% childcare if we split, I'd be seeing him as much as I do now, they are very much our children and not my children and I can't see that changing.

I am not interested in teaching my children 'it's ok to be single' as a truism, there are lots of bad things about being single just as there are some truly terrible things about being in a bad marriage. I am interested in teaching (modelling) high self-esteem to my children so they are attracted to interesting and loving and kind people (in relationships or as friends) and like themselves enough to not dread being alone. Having companionship, whether in a marriage, relationship or close friends is something very valuable, I would teach them to nurture and value that rather than to desire one state or the other.

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