micro mini school skirts in primary school

[foreverwino]

The skirt vs trousers debate was on tws this morning but I was wanting to start this thread before that.

Dd is in an excellent nursery attached to an excellent primary. But when I dropped her off yesterday I was made uncomfortable by seeing several of the older pupils 9/10/11yos, wearing VERY short mini skirts (bare legs). They looked so horribly pornified. It has really put me off the school. Even if I dont allow dd to dress like that I dont want her in the environment where others do.

I am posting in feminism because I am finding it hard to articulate my objections without sounding like someone who thinks women should change their behaviour to 'prevent' rape. I dont believe any of those rape myths but do object to the sexualisation of these pre-teens.

Basically I want advice as to how to approach the school on this. It is v oversubscribed and as dd isnt actually at the main school yet I dont know how much of a voice I will have.

I now have until January to decide if I want to send her there (other options arent up to much tbh).

No. They were not "cleared of sex with two children". They had their sentences reduced on appeal. They weren't "let off". They had their sentences reduced to one year (suspended) from two years. Don't know much about the case of course, but that is what I read in the Daily Mail article you linked to.

Those men were let off (rightly or wrongly) because the girls said they were 16 and the men claimed to believe them. It had nothing to do with the length of their skirts. Nor is it relevant to this discussion.

There are a few seriously weird posts on this thread

Not that I am agreeing with the sentence being reduced you understand! Just wanted to make the point that they were not "let off".

Because those girls were 12 (and claimed to be 16) they were treated as being legally capable of agreeing to sex. Under 12 is different in law, and not legally capable of agreeing to sex, so if they had been under 12 the case would have been treated differently.

It is a sexist/sexual matter. The boys arent baring any flesh. Only their heads and hands are on show. Girls fashion has become pornified. School is supposed to be about learning, not a fashion show. These girls' outfits are not suitable for learning or playground games. What happens when there is a gust of wind? The boys are all running about, in warm jumpers/ jackets, enjoying themselves whilst these girls are standing by the sidelines, preening. What happens if they drop something? Do they ask a boy to pick it up for them??!!

This trend is v damaging imo in reinforcing sexual stereotypes.

Btw, this isnt an aibu. It is in feminism because I want a feminist analysis but I see the mras are out in force...

I understand your point Verlain but I still see it as the men being let off.

SGM - too stupid to have sex :o

It's a dangerous argument though. "She wanted it, she told me she was 16, she has a FB account, you cant have a FB account if you're under 13, she tricked me, poor me."

People who disagree with you are not automatically mras....

"I see the mras are out in force"

Odd how that one always gets trotted when people don't feel that other posters agree with them...

I still agree with you foreverwino. It's part of the same argument against bikinis, high heals, etc for children and school shoes that discourage girls from running around.

I have never seen a state primary school girl in a knee length skirt. I have looked at the M and S website and all the school skirts are above the knee. It was the same when I at school. I have never seen a state primary school boy in knee length shorts. Shorts are above the knee. The amount of flesh shown by boys and girls is the same. For most of the year, girls wear thick tights under skirts anyway.

It is nothing to do with porn culture. School girls have always work skirts like that at primary school. Primary school uniform is not a legal requirement. If you want your daughter to wear shorts or trousers, that is your choice. My DD wears school shorts to school, as do lots of other girls as shorts are currently fashionable.

Speaking to a school because you want other girls to change their clothes because you think it sexual would be an incredibly sexist thing to do. I would not support it as a feminist. People should stop policing the clothes of females.

NONE of the boys were wearing shorts. They were dressed for the (cold) weather.

I'm quite a young Mum so it's not that long since I was at school and NO-ONE dressed like that. Culture has changed dramaticallyin the past decade. Sexualisation of tots has crept up on us, so sneekily that many people obviously havent stepped back and looked at it with a critical eye.

If you are in doubt go and watch teen tv from 15-20 years ago and compare the girls clothes to shows now. This isnt just the natural cycle of fashion trends but a seeping of porn into the mainstream. I dont want my dd (or ds) to grow up learning that porn is normal and that girls are no more than objectified pieces of meat.

Sexualisation of tots has crept up on us

wtf are mras btw?

I can't think of any teen TV from 15-20 years ago. Other than The Word perhaps.

FW, one of my children was at primary school a decade ago and one of my children is in primary school now. The clothes children wear to primary school has not changed in that time.

JenaiMarr

MRA = Men's Rights Activist

Think Fathers 4 Justice type. On here, it seems like the label gets put on anyone who doesn't follow official rad-fem policy.

But the person who has accused people of being MRAs on this thread is Foreverwino, who is not making a radical feminist statement. So I don't see how radical feminists can be blamed for her calling other people MRAs.

I was referring to the board in general, not this specific thread.

Don't you agree JenaiMarr? Sexualisation of women is unarguable, but it's sliding lower and lower down the age ladder. the case referred to above is a perfect case in point - it's seriously argued that 12 year old children freely choose gangbangs in parks - just part of life's rich tapestry. No one should judge, mmkay.
DD has been watching quite a bit of Nick Jr lately - there was one ad for Bratz Dolls (I think) featuring styled and made up preteens pouting over their shoulders to sell them.

It's hardly hysterical pearl clutching to see the connection between mainstream (pornified) culture and girls' fashion. It's not following the fashion that's the problem, it's what's influencing it, imo.

REally MrsReasonable? It's usually just applied to those who put forward anti (not non) feminist views, or who seek to deride any discussion of feminist topics.

Except, Sal, in this very thread, OP used the MRA stick to bash people who had the temerity to disagree that seeing a girls legs = pornification of our culture.

Except MrsReasonable on this very thread the OP was told by you that she was part of the problem.

No I don't agree. Nor do I agree that "sexualisation of women is unarguable". Women are sexual (generally).

I do think that there's an aesthetic that I'm pretty about, which probably imo has its roots in the porn industry and has possibly worked its way into children's fashions. I'll accept that.

I think MrsReasonable had a point tbh.

sorry pressed post too soon -
and blaming women for noticing a set up that harms women, is, well, it's a bit anti feminist, really. Maybe you didn't mean it like that, but OP has a concern and to dismiss it and say it's her problem is not really on.