How 'feminist' are you on a sliding scale?

[DingDongMerrilyOutOfSeason]

I consider myself a feminist to the extent that I believe in equality for women. However, I refer to myself as a girl (as in girls' night out), wax my ladygarden and stay at home with my DCs, although have worked part time in the past. I am pro-choice, although have to admit to judging certain circumstances in my head in the past but aloud I am always supportive, I believe in equal pay for women, I hate sexism and generally think that women should have the same opportunities and acceptance in society as men do.

Where does this put me on a scale? I have posted once or twice on feminism and all I seem to do is argue with myself! Maybe I think too deeply but I cannot get my head around why I do not always agree with feminist points of view. Is feminism generally about equality or is it more than that? I feel I am missing something...

Thanks for all the replies, food for thought. I sometimes feel like I am 'letting the side down' because I don't care enough to fight for things that may lead to equality, for example, I took my DH's name when we married. My take on it was that my name had originally been my father's anyway so it was not like I was holding on to a name which represented both sides of my family, or an original name of my very own. I wanted to have the same name as my husband and children and this was the path of least resistance. The argument that my name was 'mine' and now I have taken his carries no weight with me, my name was my father's not my mother's and as for the fact I had had that name all my life, by the time I die (hopefully) I will have been DingDongMarriedName longer than I was DingDongMaidenName so if your name is yours by virtue of how long you hold it, my married name will be rightfully mine. I consider the fact that I thought about the patriachy involved in my birth name, ie it running down the male line, feminist, but the fact that I did not come up with an entirely new name for myself, DH and DCs was just lazy. Surely that would be the most feminist approach, to start each family with a new name taken from neither side? Or for all members to have different names? Or for DPs to have different names but DCs to have a mix of both or something completely new?

Rambling, but you can see why I spend hours mulling things over in my head and not getting anywhere!

And the doors thing! Why can people, not men, just people, not be expected to give up a seat for someone who needs it more, or to hold a door open? The amount of threads I have read about businessmen sitting on the tube avoiding eye contact when a pregnant woman needs a seat and I think to myself, what about all the business women who did not give up their seats? Why is it only men who are expected to show courtesy? As for letting a door slam in someone's face, surely that is just rude and people of both sexes should hold open doors? Unless it is a particularly heavy door in which case it would make more sense for my DH to hold it as he is physically stronger. Or would this be sexist? My poor head!

I'm a Feminist with a capital F but I live within current social and political structures because I have to, while fighting bits of it when I have the will/energy. In other words, I choose my battles. I have a permanent sense of rage, however, because I really think that once you see how patriarchal the world is there's no turning back. It's everywhere.

I think the difficulty is being women, everything is potentially a feminist issue even when it isn't. E.g. taking dh's name, I did but mainly because his was better than mine. I didn't have a strong attachment to my dad or his name, plus my dad was adopted so not even passing down some family legacy. And in actual fact my dh changed his own surname from his dad's to his mum's maiden name as he preferred it.

The idea of not majorly disagreeing with your dh in public is a courtesy issue not a feminist, as is holding doors open, giving up seats etc. Sometimes it's a question of respect, for everyone. But as women we are cursed with having to think about the double meaning of everything.

I also agree with everything Jenny60 said :)

I agree with Bumper re. the courtesy in public thing. I think it just boils down to politeness that should be practised by both sexes. I like holding doors for people and letting other cars out first (unless on the school run of course!) cos it gives me this fuzzy feeling of community. Silly I know.

But sometimes I open doors for guys they go "no you first" and I end up going first in order to divert a potential mini standoff. I think it's culturally ingrained in some men that they must hold doors for women. So yes it is all a bit of a mind mess, everything is imbued with some double meaning.... must stop thinking!

Spider I thought it wasn't; but I was trying to explain why I answered you as I did. I really wanted to make it clear that I agree that threads do indeed become heated in this section, and yes that can be off-putting at first glance.

However, some of the heat often comes from posters (and again, I am not talking about you) who seem to contribute with a clear agenda of "winding up" the feminists. These are often trolls, but not always. An opening gambit which says, "I don't post here because it's all too confrontational" for example -which while can be very sincere (as in your case)- can often be (mis)interpretated as the start to such a form of intervention.

I hope I have explained myself. I certainly am not looking to offend/annoy you. My personal stance on feminism as I have stated is quite uncompromising in what it wants to achieve. However, I think that all feminist voices and opinions are very welcome. As a fellow feminist I will support you unconditionally, even if I don't always agree with you 100%.

Plus, I do like to discuss things and argue. I find it simulating and extremely educational. It's why I have to ration myself on MN and the feminist boards in particular because otherwise I'd be here all day.

I think I'm a pretty radical feminist - I feel very deeply about it and have very strong views, but I shave my legs, wear a bra etc I don't look like an "old-school" feminist, but I sound like one! But my point on that has always been, that I will be how I like, and I won't be bullied by a woman who doesn't like me wearing a skirt, anymore than a man who'd rather I did wear a skirt!

And by the way, the war is so very far from being over...

I'm a feminist - but not sure which type! I Maybe a small f type, I don't do much to advance feminism except complain if something is unfair to woman or sexist...

I am thankful to those in the past who got me my freedoms, and thankful to anyone fighting the good fight at the moment - I guess I was more vocal when I a teenager, then during my twenties tended to lost interest, in other issues too, as I was busy with working hard/enjoying my twenties... do that make sense?

Now I have a baby, and will want another soon, I hope I have more time to get involved again. Oh and hello xx

Also, having lurked around for a little here before being brave enough to post, can someone link me to this 'Feminism 101' so I can read up again, and don't ask any silly questions if I decide to post. Thx

Hiya Undefeated: there are various; this one I like the best so far:

finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/

Forkful will probably have other suggestions.

And welcome!

Thanks Cat! (can I call you Cat?) Am reading now. Mumsnet should have its own (stickied) version too, btw xx

Of course you can, my name is somewhat convoluted. And what are stickies? If you don't mind me asking. I have heard them mentioned but have never seen one, at least I don't think so.

I've described myself as a feminist for about thirty years! it's part of who I am entirely BUT, I'm also a believer in capitalism and am a Tory.

I am married, am a SAHM and have a very traditional set up with a feminist husband! Hmm, now I just sound feministly confused !

I am hugely independent, my DH works away a great deal so I can fix a loo, change a wheel, find a fusebox, run my own business, haul great hay bales around but can bake a mean sponge and generally don't need a man much at all ( but like having one!)

I share Spiderslegs views on the burqa ( but I'm an atheist anyway) and share all feminists loathing of the way women are objectified in the media. I despair at the behaviour of men like John Terry and Ryan Giggs but more at their wives for putting up with them.

I don't think there is a sliding scale.

I think there are a very small number of core beliefs that are needed in order to be a feminist rather than not-a-feminist, and everything else is optional. But these optional extras go off in many different directions, not simply from "minimal feminist" to "maximum feministyness".

I have an awkward relationship with feminism, although I am a feminist through and through.

My mum is a radical feminist and a lesbian. In my teens I was bombarded with anti-male propaganda, including gems such as "everyone with a penis is a potential rapist" and "shaving one's legs is pandering to all men's latent paedophilia". Bless her, Mum has since admitted that some of her eccentric beliefs may have been "a bit silly" but she was going through a rough patch and easily influenced.

So sometimes when I read some radical feminist stuff I feel a bit about the whole thing and just switch off.

It's ironic that becoming a SAHM and having sons has really reawakened the feminist in me- realising just how little society values the important work that women have been doing outside of the paid sphere for centuries, and how difficult societal structures make it for men and women to move easily between the public and private spheres, and trying to protect my boys from the gender stereotyping that seems to pervade everything... and meanwhile Mother and my feminist, pre-kids friends seem to think I've somehow sold out the sisterhood to become some neo-conservative anti-rebel - gah!

But yes I am a bloody feminist, whether the "proper" feminists think so or not. So bloody there.

Jenny60 I know what you mean about the rage, I don't really feel it anymore but I know I will have to sooner or later. There was a thread recently about why women get depressed, someone said that depression is anger turned inward. I have had PND and I know it's because I just haven't had the energy to rage, and have felt guilty about not having the energy. OP I am so with you on the over-analysing it all, I do the same!

Catita - a sticky is where they make a thread stick to the top of the list of threads, like the way they often 'sticky' a webchat thread to make it stay at the top of Active Convos.

I really wonder about this thing about 'proper feminists' saying people aren't feminists because they do x, y and z despite them being very active in feminism otherwise. I know a lot of RL feminists and I have never yet encountered a situation where a woman is saying she is a feminist and the 'proper' feminists have said 'No you're not, you don't shave your legs' (for example). (Though they will often, online and in RL, say something like 'what you're saying is rape apology and that is not a feminist thing to say'.) In about 1990 I was told I couldn't be a feminist if I shaved my legs and read Viz but that was by a man who frankly didn't know what the f* he was talking about.
Is this something that used to happen a lot, do you think? Were there very exclusive strains of feminism that were prevalent in the 1970s and 80s, and if so, what has happened to them? Have the women who thought like that mellowed, or are they still there thinking it but just not being as vocal? Because the mainstream feminism of the noughties, including the more radical end, is definitely not prescriptive in that way. Is it that even radicals have been heavily influenced by the neoliberal emphasis on choice?

Thanks Sybil. Wish I could debate your questions but am still chewing on them.

Me too Sybil, chewing and parenting!

TrillianAstra I think there are a very small number of core beliefs that are needed in order to be a feminist rather than not-a-feminist

What are they? Do they all boil down to wanting equality or is it more than that?

So pleased to have lots of replies, this is really making me think!

IMO core values of feminism are:

thinking that people should be respected, valued, and treated equally regardless of their gender
realising that this is not currently the case
wanting it to change

I would say that these beliefs are what you need to be a feminist. Anything else is debateable.

Some say they would add in that you should actually do something about it, but to my mind the core values of something are beliefs, not actions.

You can say that someone is acting inconsistently with their beliefs if they do something anti-feminist, but you can't say that they are not a feminist. Feminists can be scared or pressured or misguided or stupid or unaware of the consequences of their actions and so do unfeminist things while still believing feminist beliefs.

That's just my take on it, of course.

That makes sense. I am a feminist then, but sometimes think that my choice to stay at home means that although I want both parents to be valued equally, with regards to both employment and childcare, I am actually harming the situation. However I really love being at home and I think my children love it too, so I am willing to sacrifice my principles.

I find myself nodding along to rod's post!