How 'feminist' are you on a sliding scale?

[DingDongMerrilyOutOfSeason]

I consider myself a feminist to the extent that I believe in equality for women. However, I refer to myself as a girl (as in girls' night out), wax my ladygarden and stay at home with my DCs, although have worked part time in the past. I am pro-choice, although have to admit to judging certain circumstances in my head in the past but aloud I am always supportive, I believe in equal pay for women, I hate sexism and generally think that women should have the same opportunities and acceptance in society as men do.

Where does this put me on a scale? I have posted once or twice on feminism and all I seem to do is argue with myself! Maybe I think too deeply but I cannot get my head around why I do not always agree with feminist points of view. Is feminism generally about equality or is it more than that? I feel I am missing something...

I am quite hairy, and also quite feminist. But the degree of my hairiness does not make me more feminist than people who wax, it's just the way I choose to express my feminism.

I love BerkshireFem's line 'We are all an equal amount of woman.'

Maybe 'resisting femininity' works better with quotes: 'resisting "femininity"'.

I am in the Nouveau Feminist camp too. All of that what Bumperlicicus said.

I always twitch that this board is called Feminism/Women's Rights. I would be more comfortable if it was called Feminism/Equality.

I measure the sexism/feminism rating of an issue by considering "does this affect men too?". Religious clothing is one thing I struggle with. The times I see men and boys in branded/designer wear and baseball caps trailed by their mothers in full niqab and even quite young sisters covered up... bothers me. If it's religiously important to dress modestly, which I completely support and respect, you put the equivalent gear on as well, mate. (I have never actually gone and said this)

Equality isn't all about catching up, or having "rights", or aspiring to be just as workaholic and macho as the men. Take flexible working patterns - the legislation says people with caring responsibilities have a specific set of rights to ask for it from their employer. It might not be seen as a drain on small to medium businesses when it's something which all sorts of people do for their work life balance rather than closely tied to "the women and their childcare needs".

So, I would say there are many many "feminist issues" particularly in the employment area where actually it's the men who have the problem. Calm it down a bit and stop being so over the top competitive, and we can all play to our strengths.

I am the sort of feminist who has been around the block enough times to be slightly amused by earnest lectures about Dworkin et al. Been there, gone on the march, knitted the jumper (photos exist) and have made an uneasy compromise with living in a nuclear family (a concept that still makes me shudder) with a man (whom I refuse to marry).

I am also the sort of feminist who felt uneasy about the Greenhammy identification of women=Peace and Niceness in the early 1980s and now feels uneasy with the idea of women=Mothers and deserving of Special Womanly Consideration.

And I write for women's glossies sometimes and enjoy it .

I'm a woman, I draw breath, ergo I'm a feminist.

Not bothered about any of the 'spheres' of feminism, just believe in global equality. Simple and obvious and good.

I shave my legs. Big fucking woop. It does not detract from my fundamental belief that I am as good as anyone, absolutely ANYONE else. Whether or not they have a penis.

I don't really believe in sliding scales of feminism.

I'm radical in that I don't believe that in our current capitalist system we can ever have equality, capitalism is just a sub-section of patriarchy. Capitalism was built on slavery, without the free labour provided by the trans-atlantic slave trade, we would never have had that sudden influx of consumer goods and the opportunities for leisure and entertainment, the leisure and time of so many talented people to study and invent new technology and build a consumer society (we would have got there, but it might have taken a couple more centuries or longer), but prior to capitalism, all the other patriarchal societies always needed a slave class to do its shit-work for it and that class ahs mostly been women. We need to do away with patriarchy and its in-built, deep-rooted assumptions about women, men and sex, in order to get true equality.

But I wax my legs, wear make up and high heels and aim to meet the patriarchal beauty standards so that I can shag sexually attractive men (whom I don't want to live with and do free domestic labour for), because I'm aware that the pool of shaggable men might be a lot smaller and less attractive without the attempt to meet the patriarchal beauty standards. (and LOL, every morning I do really look in the mirror and think "OK, am meeting the patriarchal beauty standards, hope the kids are ready to go" ) Also I am aware that I have internalised the beauty assumptions - I look at pictures of Audrey Hepburn and find her stunningly beautiful, I think I look better with lipstick on, but know that if I were an obscure tribeswoman, I would find elongated necks or ear-lobes, or that woman with a big disc in her lower lip, much more beautiful than Audrey Hepburn who would simply look like an underfed pasty freak. So I'm conscious that my assumptions have been formed by my culture and experience, not just my individual, atomised response.

Not sure where that places me on the scale tbh.

I am a socialist feminist.

And I dont believe in 'equality', it's just a line peddled to us by capitalism. I believe in liberation.

We've concerned ourselves fighting for equality ( actually, id go further and say we've been deliberately sidetracked) when liberation of women should be our goal.

& this, THIS is why I never post in feminism.

It's far too nuanced as a subject.

There will always be a poster who believes my definition, experience or ideas are, in some way, 'letting the side down'.

I find the idea that 'capitalism is just a sub-section of the patriarchy' and such arguments a little alienating. Do you really believe that? I certainly don't view capitalism as an unalloyed good but find the patriarchy argument a little specious.

Anyway, if anyone cares anymore - I am a 'ragged' feminist, I believe in choice, I belive in femininity, I believe in difference & I believe in equality.

If you ask me the 'burqa question' I think I woman's right not to be subjugated trumps religious sensibilities every time.

However I also find the pornification & ermpowerment line utterly self-defeating, illogical & nauseating.

FWIT's worth, I'm a SAHM with the hairiest fanny in the world (hence the name).

LOL at HerBex and the mirror. Also I am coming to terms with the fact that I agree with her description of capitalism and patriarchy but simultaneously reject the idea that this can be changed via revolution. It is making me quite dizzy.

How exactly are we meant to 'liberate' ourselves in that line of argument?

Reject capitalism?

I think alternative communities have already been explored.

Spiderslegs who has said or implied anyone else is letting the side down?

this feels to me like a very inclusive thread in which multifarious feminisms are being shared. People are obviously coming from very different places but I haven't seen any judging, or any deploring of other people's choices.

I find I am fairly contradictory in my beliefs. In my work place I have become ever more feminist. It grates on me that other people feel that I am over-reacting and reading too much into things and should just let it go. Now that I have a ds I can see the gender roles that are re-inforced perpetually by society - not just feminine roles, but masculine ones too.

But I follow a fairly traditional set up in the home - wouldn't have children if I wasn't married; wouldn't seriously disagree with my dh in public (nor would he with me) and many of my priniciples/beliefs are dictated by my religion, more so than my belief in feminism; I am anti-abortion for instance (I have however moved away from saying pro-life).

Nobody has said anyone is letting the side down, spider. We are sharing our personal views on what makes us feminists.
That's all. I don't think anyone expects everyone else to agree.

who is accusing others of letting the side down???
Many roads lead to Rome, etc etc

im not a feminist.

i believe in equality for hamsters and bananas

Not sure that I understand a sliding scale, but I am comfortable with calling myself a feminist and I have mostly stopped the self-destructive habit of questioning the legitimacy of my own feminism. I have become a bit more radical in recent years, I guess. Motherhood has made me focus on feminism again.

I've always, since early teen years anyway, identified as a feminist but in fact, for several years in my mid/late twenties I behaved in ways that were really not very feminist-aware at all. It wasn't that I thought we had won; I never actually thought about it enough to conclude whether that was the case. Just had a long stage where I was too busy being a navel-gazing twentysomething with fairly hefty amounts of belated growing up to do, and during that stage I didn't find the time or the inclination to pay attention to how things were shifting for feminists, or to think about feminism beyond the knee-jerk "of course I am a feminist, I believe in equality" statement, or to care much about politics, or anything really.

But hey ho. It wasn't a great time, but I am done beating myself up about it and busy enjoying being a fully engaged member of society again.

Aaarrrgghhhh - you see.

I didn't mean this thread. I meant the feminism topic generally, was refering to another thread here

This thread is (or was) a very nice thread.

My point being, although this is a very nice thread, you all have different & sometimes divergent ideas of what feminism entails.

& therein lies the rub.

I always have been a feminist, by instinct, I suppose. At school refused to learn sewing (girls had to age 8, boys rudimentary woodwork) unless lessons were not segregated, even though didn't come from a feminist family. that sort of thing.

Later on got all ladette as Bumperlicious explains.

Since having a daughter, getting married, made redundant so became SAHM, brought feminism to the fore again. It's objectificaion and pornification that concern me most, at the moment.

But of course spiderslegs. Everyone has a different perspective. But agian, many roads lead to Rome.

I think Spider, you might also recognise that one reason some of us get immediately defensive on threads is that some posters start off with a comment that appears designed to attack the feninist section.
I am not arguing that this was your intention at all. I just wish to point out that your post could be interpreted in this way and may account for the reaction.
I have said it on more than one thread: I support all feminists who post here, even if I might have differences of opinion or some heated arguments.

I'm really not sure. What one person could see as radical feminism another could see as more mainsteam.
For me I have been bought up to see both parents working as normal and having the mother being the main earner as not unusual. As far as the choises I made at school and how I was viewed though things are only starting to make sense when I view them with a feminists perspective. I think I was more radical in my youth in that at school I made a conscious choose not to be attractive to boys (not shave legs, wear a long skirt or make up) and not speak to them any differently than I would to anyone.
I think I relaxed a bit when at university but even then found certain attitudes reprensible especally when looking in from an LGBT perspective. Attitudes like "it's important to let men take charge because they will do things like hold the door for you and say how pretty you are" I think being a mother has made ms more radical as I will endeavour to raise my DSs with a feminist upbringing.

Could it Cat?

That certainly wasn't my intention.

& yes SinicalSal many roads do lead to Rome, you are quite right.

Many of them also lead to infighting whilst the men march on ahead.

Again I'm not talking about this thread, but many of the feminist threads do descend into a brawl which is why I'm always reticent to post.

I don't think it's so much of a sliding scale, more of a case of different hues of feminism. One day, I'm a rad fem, the next, marxist fem, sometimes nouveau feminist (as bumperliscious described)... different days call for different levels of feminism. Maybe that's me being indecisive...

Fair point, Peanut; I guess it's not really human nature to be 100% consistent.

That sounded like veiled criticism and it wasn't; I am not especially consistent myself