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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Smear tests to subordinate women

614 replies

sakura · 06/07/2011 04:30

I have been looking at the recent threads about compulsory smear tests in Poland, and I have to say, it doesn'T surprise me that they're compulsory in some countries. THis is a natural, inevitable, progression from the actual purpose of screening.

[Oh, did you think smear tests were about saving women's lives?!?!]

wildkittydear made an excellent point (I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her}
"It is shocking that Poland is thinking of making very personal medical examinations for women compulsory. I personally am very offended by the way only breast and cervical cancer are championed as the only killers of women and I know that is an exaggeration!! but do you get my drift? Some illnesses get priority in the media and I am not convinced there is always a benign reason for this."

Yes, Womanhood is the "problem" to be cured. Women's organs that are seen as faulty-- because men don't have them. Not male = pathology.

The truth is that women's bodies are much, much healthier than men's because we have two Xs in our chromozomal make up and each X contains lots of life-preserving genes, whereas the Y is slightly pitiful by comparison.
This is why women live longer and why boys are more like to be born with chromozomal abnormalities or die when they get sick. Girls tend to recover.
The extra X gives women the biological upper hand.

Men don't really know how to look after their bodies either, in a general sense (healthy diet etc)

Considering this, it's really important to question why the medical fraternity is obsessed with getting women to their tests and not men. Men are more likely to contract all sorts of diseases and cancers, and much earlier in their life than women too.

But men are trusted to look after their own bodies and decide for themselves whether they want to be screened or not. There is no goverment promoted mass-screening programme of testicular cancer, for example. BEcause testicles belong to men, and are therefore regarded as "healthy until proven otherwize"Men are not frightened, coerced or cajolled into being screened because there is no obsession with controlling them.

THe history of medicine teaches us that women, and by default their sex specific organs, are regarded as defective and pathalogical. (when if any sex is defective, it is the male sex due to the Y, which renders them biologicaly more vulnerable to disease in a number of ways)

Greer has covered this in detail in The Whole Woman. She has examined the evidence which shows that cervical screening has done nothing to save women's lives.
Women are still dying from cervical cancer. Although the rate of cervical cancer has been dropping , that is not because of screening, but because because it was actually dropping naturally before mass screening was invented, and continues to drop at the same rate.

Often mistakes are made in the laboratories, and there have been cases of women who actually had healthy cervixes being treated for cancer, and women who had cancer were missed, and ended up dying.

As I said, the point is not to actually save women's lives, but to get women to comply, to STFU and to be penetrated by gynelogical instruments.I don'T get screened, because I've looked at the statistics and found that, despite screening, women are still dying of cervical cancer so the margin for human error in the tests is too great.

Which brings me to another important question. WTF are men doing in gynecology anyway? I mean, WhyTF are they even there? In the room? Sticking bits of metal into women? Researching vaginas, when it's not their place to do so? THe funding should go to female scientists and doctors [but that's for another thread]

I haven't had a smear test for over ten years. WHen I had my first at 18 the results came back telling me I needed to go for a re-test for possible cancerous cells. I went back, had another check, the second time it came back clear (after me scaring myself to death). After doing research I learned that if you have had sperm or even your period (if you'd just finished it) can interfere with the findings, making it look as though there may be cancerous cells when there aren't.

WHat a joke. And the joke's on women. And I haven't been back since.

OP posts:
RunnerHasbeen · 06/07/2011 11:08

Poland does have some of the highest rates of cervical cancer in Europe, I would much more easily believe compulsory smear tests were in response to this and not some strange "what can we do to target women" strategy. They are not free you know, there was an outcry here just a few years ago because cost was factored into the smear policy. (WHO currently updating their European mortality database, so not sure link will work but it did a month or so ago the last time I used it).

www.euro.who.int/en/what-we-do/data-and-evidence/mortality-database-updated

I think this post is a sign of how dangerous it can be when someone with an ideology goes fishing for evidence in a field they have not the most basic understanding of. Yes woman still die of cervical cancer despite screening, but those in the screened group die at much lower levels. Anyone with even the faintest understanding of statistics knows you cannot expect absolutes. Your genetics is worse than high school level and the whole tone of your post reminds me of creationists trying to bend evidence against evolution. I don't feel even slightly violated by either a smear test or my male gynaecologist, why would I, not that different than going to the dentist?

Cattleprod · 06/07/2011 11:09

Side question - what is the men's equivalent of gynaecology? Womens reproductive systems are obviously more complicated and perform more functions than mens, so warrant a whole separate medical sector. But men still have problems - is there a specialism that deals specifically with penises (penii?), testicles etc., or is it just absorbed in 'general medicine' or whatever type of disease/problem the man is suffering from?

Google says it's a 'urologist', but I've never heard of this term and haven't seen a 'urology' department in any hospital I've been to.

AnnieLobeseder · 06/07/2011 11:09

I don't get this argument that women's bodies are seen as being inferior and more prone to failure, and thus needing more screening. Men are equally encouraged to be tested for testicular and prostate cancer.

Apparently 1/3 to 1/2 of all people will develop some kind of cancer. How can it possibly be a bad idea to screen for it where we can?

Conpulsory medical testing of any kind is another topic altogether.

Poledra · 06/07/2011 11:12

Cattleprod - andrology is the specialism you're looking for. And there are urologists, but they're interested in your kidneys, bladder etc.

Bandwithering · 06/07/2011 11:12

I have now booked my smear test thanks to this thread!

AnnieLobeseder · 06/07/2011 11:12

Now see, what Poledra has done is get to the point of why these laws in Poland are dangerous to women without losing her point in a misandristic (?) rant.

Losing the right to work for refusing, and not male equivalent law is very worrying indeed. Would EU law allow this?

Bandwithering · 06/07/2011 11:12

(four years since the last one)

swallowedAfly · 06/07/2011 11:12

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MamaChocoholic · 06/07/2011 11:13

"men have no business being in gynecology"

I don't want a male doctor full stop. but I don't want, especially in the current anti-feminist environment, a woman only speciality. just how do you think the research funding etc would be affected? it would become a second class area.

btw I don't think anyone - male or female - should be forced to undergo medical screening if they refuse. but that seemed to be a minor part of the OP's rant.

TrillianAstra · 06/07/2011 11:13

Well done Bandwithering! :)

dittany · 06/07/2011 11:14

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Lillabet · 06/07/2011 11:15

Frankly the OP has made me almost incoherent with anger and frustration!
The OP is doing nothing for feminism or women's health with her distorted views. I would write further but I do not want to descend into a rambling rant that is ill conceived, poorly worded and poorly referenced; to do so would descend to the OPs level!! To write the reasoned and comprehensive response I would like to, would take at least an hour to compose, organise, check and reference properly and I have better things to do with my time!

schroeder · 06/07/2011 11:17

I haven't time to read the whole thread, but I have to say that the OP is a perfect example of why 'feminism' gets a bad name and why not every woman would call herself one.

The OP is unbelievably sexist.

The solution to a male biased society is not to change it so it's biased against men.

shineynewthings · 06/07/2011 11:19

Rang up doctors surgery just now for an appointment with the nurse for a smear test. Got an appointment for this evening. Thanks for this thread, because I'd put it off for ages!

Bandwithering · 06/07/2011 11:19

thanks... yikes.

motherinferior · 06/07/2011 11:20

Yes, of course there are questions over the efficacy of smears. The fact remains that a smear test is at the moment the only way to tell if your cervix is showing pre-cancerous changes.

It is up to you whether you want to know if your cervix is, in fact, undergoing those changes. Nobody on this thread has talked about forcing women to have tests. But frankly, given the emphasis the women's movement has put on having control over our own health, choosing to undergo those tests is often considered the best option.

GrimmaTheNome · 06/07/2011 11:20

Now see, what Poledra has done is get to the point of why these laws in Poland are dangerous to women without losing her point in a misandristic (?) rant.

Losing the right to work for refusing, and not male equivalent law is very worrying indeed. Would EU law allow this?

Yup...

However, I wouldn't find it much better if there was a male equivalent law.

Cattleprod · 06/07/2011 11:20

Thanks Poledra - I've never heard of andrology either.

swallowedAfly · 06/07/2011 11:24

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swallowedAfly · 06/07/2011 11:26

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boysrock · 06/07/2011 11:28

Yy dittany, also the hpv injection is questionable in its efficacy as it is not effective against all strains of hpv so there is still a chance of cervical ca.
So pap smears will still be needed.

I dont have objection to screening per se or immunisation but I question why the same fuss is not.made over immunising boys or why men do not get called for prostate screening. Yfou can feel lumps.in breasts but women still get screened formally. The medicalisation of womens lives seems to be getting more rather than less.

What really irritates me is the amount of intrusive questions that have to be asked to hand over the morning after pill without payment.

This seems to especially effect women on loq incomes who dont have the resources to pay for it. Really when was the last time a man was asked when he had last had sex and how the contraception malfunctioned. Or then had to put up with a discussion about long term contraception?

To the.poster who wondered about urology it is a mainstream speciality with own outpatients wards and theatre lists.

SardineQueen · 06/07/2011 11:30

I agree with forkful's posts on this thread.

I have read the first link on poledra's post and it is really shocking. How can this be happening in Europe in this day and age? Forced smear tests? It's mind-boggling.

surelynottrue · 06/07/2011 11:33

Cervical screening became mainstream in 1988 (Department of health)

The mortality rate per 100,000 women fell from 8.3% to 3.3% from 1971-1988
Cervical cancer incidence fell by 42% 1988-1997
So the screening process is estimated to save 4500-5000 lives per annum in the UK Useless it is not.

AnnieLobeseder · 06/07/2011 11:33

Grimma - I wouldn't like to see men forced to undergo any sorts of tests either, but it's especially worrying if any new law is made in which only women can be punished.

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