Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Bechdel Test Thread

330 replies

TrilllianAstra · 22/06/2011 20:52

I thought having a thread for "I just watched this and it passed/failed and I thought..." would be good to encourage me to think of the Bechdel test when watching TV/films or reading books. I wonbe watching/reading anything on purpose for the thread, just thought I would apply it to whatever I happened to be watching or reading.

The test doesn't necessarily say that a film is feminist/antifeminist, but it is interesting.

Rules reminder:
Are there at least two women (some versions say "two women with names")
Who have a conversation
About something other than a man?

Feel free to join in :)

OP posts:
sozzledchops · 02/11/2011 13:52

watched 'In Her Shoes' the other night. Passed, actually don't think there were any conversations between 2 men.

givemushypeasachance · 04/11/2011 16:03

Just sticking my head in out of curiosity - I've heard of this test before and think it's pretty interesting.

I've got what is quite an odd one - the Batman Arkham City computer game which I've been playing recently. I think it just passed. It's clearly not a "feminist game" since the target audience is pretty thoroughly male; the male characters are mostly bulked up and overtly macho while the female ones are scantily clad and not adverse to using their sexuality to get what they want.

Aside from some passing technically named female characters like female medical staff that as Batman you rescue from hostage situations then discard and move on, the three named female characters are Harley Quinn (scantily clad in biker-chic clothes, everything she does is motivated by the Joker), Poison Ivy (even more scantily clad, green and plant-obsessed, hardly appears in this game) and Catwoman. Now she does have more clothing on but it's very very tight for someone clambering around on rooftops and it gets shredded up a bit as the game goes on. Plus her extremely hip-swaying walk and the fact that when you play as her you can make her sneak around by crawling on all fours probably indicates where her appeal is aimed... She does kick ass and saves Batman's bacon in the storyline, but there is a lot of cheesecake factor at play.

The one Bechdel Test beating moment is where Poison Ivy and Catwoman talk about Catwoman not watering some flowers Ivy gave her, then Catwoman going and breaking into a vault to make up for it. It's not much in the scheme of things!

givemushypeasachance · 04/11/2011 18:10

Hang on - on my way home I realised that I missed one character out. Talia is another female character, sort-of a love interest for Batman and a go-between for the "big bad". She has a bunch of nifty female bodyguard ninja types but she only talks to them about Batman...

ecclesvet · 04/11/2011 19:12

mushypeas The latest Batman game sparked a lot of talk after someone made a blog post about the sexism. Don't miss the follow-up post, although the 'Hulk speaking' gimmick gets tiring quickly.

Selky · 04/11/2011 20:34

I watched "The Tourist" last night. Big fail. I think that Angelina Jolie is the only female character in it.

sozzledchops · 04/11/2011 23:00

Lesbian Vampire Killers passes with flying colours.

MMMarmite · 04/11/2011 23:05

Persepolis passes with flying colors! It's an animated film (originally a graphic novel) about a girl growing up in Iran. Would recommend it.

I'm sadly realising that Big Bang Theory is failing miserably though. Damn it, I was enjoying that show.

Trills · 05/11/2011 19:27

The Princess Bride appears to be failing.

Trills · 05/11/2011 20:31

Girls and women (with names) are talking to each other about singing and about hair dye and about cheerleading in the episode of Glee I'm watching.

givemushypeasachance · 06/11/2011 13:02

ecclesvet - good lord, the caps-iness of that blog is pretty scary! An interesting read through the capslock shouting thogh; I read posts ones and two but I'm still not over-convinced that some specifically female-oriented insults are even the most sexist thing about the game, and if bitch is overused then to me it came across as more a sign of some lazy dialogue writing than anything else.

MMMarmite - what series of Big Bang Theory are you on? I reckon earlier series when they pretty much had just Penny and some guests as female characters then they would have failed pretty hard, but now there are three female regulars they do seem to have at least the odd conversation that doesn't revolve around the guys.

QuimFabray · 06/11/2011 17:30

Whip It, Drew Barrymore's directorial debut, passes.

The male characters are very much secondary, as the main focus is Ellen Page's character joining a roller derby team, and her relationship with (female) best friend.

NotJustClassic · 06/11/2011 17:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tianc · 06/11/2011 18:00

Joyfully re-watching the 1987 BBC adaptation of Dorothy L Sayers' Gaudy Night. Not only passes with flying colours, but the women talk to each other as independent, intellectual beings ? not just as plot-fulfilling roles like pushy granny, mad catwoman neighbour, doting mother, efficient secretary.

Hmm, do the other two DLS adaptations in that series pass?

In Strong Poison, Miss Climpson has extended conversations with the female nurse (who has a name but I forget) about spiritualism.

From memory, Have His Carcase is less promising, because most female-female conversations are about the murdered man or the male chief suspect. There's an exchange between our heroine and a snotty receptionist, but someone else chucks Lord Peter Wimsey into that conversation.

KRITIQ · 06/11/2011 21:16

Tintin - definitely fails. Apart from a few female characters in the background, all are male. I don't think any female characters even speak, let alone to each other. My MIL wanted to see it as she'd been a fan of the books. I'd not read them so it was an okay yarn with the CGI and all. She thought it was okish, but not as good as the books.

Tianc · 06/11/2011 21:59

The novel of One Day is passing.

So far our main female character has had at least three conversations with other women wrt work. Some are short but they're all important to the plot and to the character's development.

Chandon · 23/11/2011 09:39

interesting thread!!!

Saw "knowing" on TV (don't ask me why i watched it) and it FAILS...

all female characters are there to support the male leads, and never interact without the men (not even the daughter and mother!!!)

Chandon · 23/11/2011 09:41

I think you have actulaly spotted a big option in the market, and maybe that is what made bridesmaids and Sex and the City so successful. All these women talking!...still, it is mainly about men though....

MyBrainIsOutOfTune · 23/11/2011 12:15

This thread is very interesting. I think I'll start posting my reading/watching hereSmile

Recently I've read
Dracula, which passes, I think..? Lucy and Mina discuss men much of the time, but they also discuss Lucy's health, as do Mina and Lucy's mother.
The Hobbit fails spectacularly; I don't remember any female characters at all
Carpe Jugulum passes. I love witches.
Good Omens - I'm not sure. I think it fails. So many of the characters are male, and the female ones are surrounded by men.
Snuff - if it passes, it's because of some tiny conversation between Sibyl and a servant or something. Most of it is seen through the eyes of a male character, so if he's not present, it doesn't get reported.
The Amber Spyglass passes several times over.

Haven't seen any TV or films lately, so I don't have anything thereWink

Applying it to books is interesting. As someone said, you'd think it'd be easier for a book to pass, and still so many fail...

Can a man be present at or involved in the conversation? This was a little unclear to me. If he can't, it would automatically rule out every book with a male main point of viewConfused

Chandon · 23/11/2011 13:37

I realise I (subconsciously) ONLY read books that pass this test.

I get bored with just the male perspective on things. You get so many male perspectives, on the radio, TV etc. .

So I think I can safely ok ALL:
Anita Brookner novels (not many men feature, really)
Ann Tyler novels (men and women very much equally hopeless, and interesting)
Elizabeth Jane Howard
Mary Wesley
Amy Tan
Barbara Trapido
Barbara Pym

I am really stuck with female novelists though...

One of the great things about Bridget Jones was the fab convo's with her friends (Shazza in autorant). Sadly, in the film this was minimised Hmm

SweetTheSting · 23/11/2011 13:49

I think 'PanAm' passes - Maggie talking to Kate about Laura standing on her own two feet, Maggie defending Laura against the weight-dragon lady (who does have a real name!) etc.

I thought that the conversation being about a man meant a man in a romantic/sexual way - but does it mean, as Tianc suggests, if it's a chat about a male corpse or male crime suspect, it also doesn't count?!

MyBrainIsOutOfTune · 23/11/2011 18:40

I found this interesting in light of this thread And depressing.

Trills · 23/11/2011 20:49

I've been reading the Clan of the Cave Bear books, nearly all of which pass (generally women discussing medicine or ways to make things or cooking). The second one doesn't unless you count her talking to a horse, but she does spend most of the book alone in a cave.

MyBrainIsOutOfTune · 24/11/2011 00:04

Well, the horse IS femaleGrin

Trills · 24/11/2011 08:30

Exactly!

Trills · 04/12/2011 19:35

Just read Ann Patchett State of Wonder and that passed.

Now starting Blod Sisters which despite the title is not vampireish (it's set in France around the time of the revolution) and named women have already had conversations that are not about men.