Bechdel Test Thread

[TrilllianAstra]

I thought having a thread for "I just watched this and it passed/failed and I thought..." would be good to encourage me to think of the Bechdel test when watching TV/films or reading books. I wonbe watching/reading anything on purpose for the thread, just thought I would apply it to whatever I happened to be watching or reading.

The test doesn't necessarily say that a film is feminist/antifeminist, but it is interesting.

Rules reminder:
Are there at least two women (some versions say "two women with names")
Who have a conversation
About something other than a man?

Feel free to join in :)

Passes:

Winter's Bone
Persepolis
Chocolat
Ab Fab
Vicar of Dibley
The Simpsons

err... ....

The Breakfast Club passes- molly ringwald and alley sheedy exchange words on lying and make up

Heathers- mostly female cast, talk about teen suicide

Death Becomes Her- the leads talk about looking young (which really should be a fail)

Reality Bites- the women talk about work/money

Clueless- clothes talk

The Craft- witchy talk

Scream films- NC and CC do mention the murders ( but does this count as talking about a man's actions?)

Serenity not doing so well if the teacher doesn't count - the series was better. Kaylee and Inara seemed to go and brush each others hair (or something) quite often.

Just watched the First Wives Club again. God I love this film. Passes. Gloria Steinham herself even makes an appearance!

Calendar Girls. Yes it's about women getting naked but it's based on a true story and is a great film. Passes.

Men in Black 3. Need I even say it?

Wicked passes very well - I was very pleased to see a play where the two main characters, taking their bows last with everyone else around them, were women.

The 2012 spiderman movie fails miserably - only two female characters with names and they have no interaction whatsoever. I think one says that the other is pretty.

On the other hand the love interest is a girl at school who is doing a science internship and beats him in tests, better (IMO) than the ditsy failed-actress in the previous set of films.

I'm really interested in the relationship between feminism and pop culture so I've just started a blog on women onscreen. Would be really interesting to see what people thought - my first two blogs are about the female characters in Lightfields, Beasts of the Southern Wild and Skyfall. Would be lovely to get some feedback from an interested audience if anyone has the time. The blog is at: broadsonfilm.wordpress.com.

Watched The 40 Year Old Virgin. Teeters on a pass - one conversation between the mom and daughter about sex (which could be viewed as being about their respective partners, in which case it would fail).

However, it has a horrible scene where the friends of the lead character, Andy,let themselves into the house of a woman he's gone home With (book shop woman) to persuade Andy to stick with his girlfriend instead - and then one of the friends stays back when the others leave and goes to see BSW in the bath.

BSW of course "deserves" to be surprised naked and vulnerable by a strange man because (a) she wanted a ONS with the lead character and (b) she masturbated in front of said lead character. So she must be sexually available to anyone, right?

I failed to pay proper attention to Dredd - I think that Mama and Anderson may have had a conversation but I'm not sure exactly what it was about.

They could easily have made both "the rookie" and "the drugs baron" be men, but there was no reason why they should be men.

Recent films watched that passed:
Ballet Shoes with flying colours. A French film I watched on iplayer the other night, called something like 'I waited for you'. Xena warrior princess mostly passes I think.
A book that I am reading, Lady of the Rivers, scrapes past just.
Watched Mayday last week and I think it passes but not in all episodes.
Then a Japanese film called 'Crime and Punishment' did. And then Pretty Young Things just about scrapes through with one or two conversations between main female character and smaller female character.
There was a great article on Jezebel the other day about why Return to Oz is totally dreadful in regards to female characters.

thedoctrine I really really hated the40yearoldvirgin, awful. although not as much as 50 first dates, where the "happy ending" is for amnesiac drew barrymore to have a baby and sail away with a man who is a stranger and every morning when she can't remember him tells her how great her life with him is

My main viewing atm is Disney shite and American trash.

Tangled passes (evil stepmother/daughter conversations about the outside world and "mother knows best") although dodgy messages generally.

Mary Poppins (just) passes (servants talking to mrs banks about womens suffrage). Chitty chitty bang bang fails. Toy story fails too.

Call the midwife is mainly women talking to women.

Revenge passes some weeks, e.g. mother/daughter stuff. Greys Anatomy too. Good Wife used to do better.

Sorry, I meant 'Oz: The Powerful and Mighty' or whatever it's called.

Watched "North and South" with DD. It passes. Lots of female characters - Margaret, her mother, the housekeeper, her cousin, her aunt, the two mill girls, Mrs Thornton, Fanny Thornton. So lots of different combinations of women talking. The female characters talk about the cotton industry, the effect of cotton on their lungs and the impact of the strike. Margaret writes to her cousin Edith describing Milltown. Occasional female talk about pianos, wallpaper, etc too. A candidate for a servant's job tells the housekeeper she can earn more at the Mill.
The men talk about the strike, the price of cotton, etc etc.
One of the women (Mrs Thornton) has a keen grasp of the economics of the industry, Fanny talks about investments, and Margaret discusses her financial situation.

It passes with flying colours in every way. And it's based on a book written in 1854.

Coyote Ugly passes - the main girl and her friend-from-home have a conversation near the beginning about how they've never followed through with anything, and she has a conversation with bar-owner about how the bar is her life.

Date Night passes (and I highly recommend it btw, love Tina Fey) as Tina Fey has a conversation with the babysitter about the children (who are not "a man or men"). She also has a conversation with her recently-divorced friend about how the friend can go out dancing if she wants, which is not explicitly about a man but is sort of about a man because it's about her freedom now she is divorced.

The Tourist. Epic fail (on several levels). Only one woman in it.

Watching 'what to expect when you are expecting'.

I think it passed. Pile of crap, but it did pass. Women talking about breastfeeding and piles.

The Bechdel test is pretty low standard though, isn't it. Someone way back mentioned Castle. It fulfils all the criteria, but the women are all satellites orbitting The Big Man. The Mentalist is exactly the same.

I can think of very few films/TV shows which are actually about the women wihout being romances. Scott and Bailey perhaps.

Yes, it's a low test. I think that's why it is powerful.

It's not asking whether a film or book represents women and women's experience. It's just showing how many do not even feature women except as a love interest.

Most episodes of Fringe pass.

Community passes on some episodes at least, although a lot of the stories centre on the male characters with the female characters' storylines being based on their femaleness

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Family Guy failed on most if not all episodes. The Simpsons I'd expect to pass a few - Lisa talking to Marge or another female character.

I thought it was interesting how someone said early on in the thread that Doctor Who seems to pass/fail depending on who is writing it. I'm guessing most Moffat episodes fail?

Yes, it is a low standard. That's why it is interesting - that so many films/TV shows/books can't pass even this very very basic level of "are the female characters actually people or are they just accessories to the male characters?".

Passing doesn't make a film "good" or "feminist" and failing doesn't necessarily make a film "bad" or "anti-feminist".

It's a bit like BMI. Someone could have a very low or very high BMI because they are unusually proportioned or because they are a heavily muscled athlete, and there's nothing wrong with that individual, but on average if half the adult population has a high BMI then something clearly is wrong.

Was thinking about this last night whilst watching inception. Only two female characters at all and they only talk about Leo D-C's character.

But not only that, I thought to myself "Do these characters need to be male?" And the answer was definitely not, but Hollywood had chosen it to be!