Do you ever feel like fighting against porn is a losing battle?

[neofeminist]

Because I do. :( DH and I have had it out on this issue after I found a few porn videos on the computer. I made it clear that I found it degrading and harmful to women, asked if he would want our DS stumbling upon it and thinking this was what adult sexuality was supposed to be like, asked if he would want our niece to see it and think this was what she was supposed to be as a woman, etc. At my demand request we watched the Hardcore documentary together, and he seemed appropriately horrified. I told him that it was very important to me that he not watch porn and he said he would not, both out of respect for my wishes and because he would never know if he was watching a woman be raped or not.

Anyway, I was looking at something on google the other day and saw something about "incognito windows" . I looked at a few of the articles about them and they were all "yeh, I use this so the wife won't find out about my porn wink wink" kind of thing. It really made me despair. I don't think DH is using the incognito windows or watching porn (though really I'd have no way of knowing, would I) but it just saddens me that it's so commonplace and almost expected of men.

I guess I don't even have a real question here, I just felt sad. :(

Any thoughts about control of what is already available free on TV through Sky and Freeview? (Accepted it's not full strength hardcore and me calling it "porn" has caused some confusion).

Do you mean the phone in channels, with one performer?

In the 'Adult' section of the Sky planner there are free channels and paid ones. At the moment the free channels have one (or two, occasionally three) performers waving phones and soliciting expensive premium rate phone calls. Sometimes there are fake lesbian scenes.They are sort of softcore and not allowed to go topless until 10 or 11pm, but the costumes don't leave much to the imagination with dental floss thongs and the gestures are sex mimes.

At the moment the paid for channels on Sky are all recorded material, but there used to be live sex shows. Freeview is similar but it also have a live paid for show, usually one performer showing the lot and sometimes having unseen implied sex. Men phone into those shows too.

I'm less bothered about the paid for shows because someone has to make an effort to see them. Personally I would like to see better controls to prevent people accidentally seeing the free phone in shows. I don't want a woman wearing next to nothing popping up on screen making sexual gestures and engaging in lesbian practices when the PTA is visiting just because DS is up for a late feed and has pressed 9-something-something.

Short answer DontCallMePeanut, I mean the free phone in shows (usually) with one presenter.

Having sex in front of a camera is not inherently degrading, Jenny. Group sex, anal sex, bondage, spanking, dressing up - all these things are fun for some people - though I don't think everyone should have to do them, of course.
There is porn which does feature condoms BTW, I've seen plenty of it. ANd there is also porn being made which you could call ethical/fairtrade porn ie willing performers who are treated with respect by the producers and directors, scenes which are playful and even affectionate, stuff made by and for women. THis stuff exists and it's important to speak up for it and support it, because sex is something that some people are interested in viewing, just as some people like listening to music or indeed watching horror films.
SOme people have no interest in couple relationships and yet enjoy looking at porn. That doesn't automatically make them bad. The general social insistence that heteromonogamous couple relationships are essential (and people who don't engage in them are freaks and failures) is actually very damaging.

Fairtrade porn - no trafficked persons, decent pay, respect for the workers.

Dione: Yup, that's the stuff. ANd it is out there.

I don't have a problem with porn (so long as it's Fairtrade) and inaccessible to children.

However Neofeminist's post brings up another issue: Her husband knew her strong views, made a promise and then broke it and lied to her. That is not to do with porn, that is to do with respect for your partner.

Are you suggesting the issue with Neofeminist's husband was more about breaking a promise rather than the specific, and would have been as much an issue if it related to some other dubious activity, say, gambling, drinking, eating meat...

Yeah.

Do you think that fairtrade/ethical porn is the only porn that should be available then SGB?

I'm struggling to see your position on this, because I've seen you on so many threads now defending people's right to watch any porn they like, regardless of how it was made or the effect on their relationship and their partner's feelings. On those threads, you seem to blame the partner for being "too controlling" and seem to overlook the deception that is involved.

Do you think your views might be biased because you've made money from the porn/sex industry and have a prejudice against heteromonogamy, so much so that you've repeatedly called people in those relationships "mundanes"?

Porn is addictive. It can prevent users from having intimate relationships with their partners. I was very liberal about porn until I recently saw it destroy a friends relationship and she talked about the addictive aspects.

It isn't addictive, it can be compulsive though.

As can most things. In which case it isn't necessarily the porn that causes the problem, if someone is the type to get compulsively hooked on something then it could well be anything.

So even if you removed porn from the equation, there would probably still be problems.

I do defend people's right to watch porn and I am proud of working in the industry. I'd like to see higher standards across the industry and a lot more fair-trade stuff. I think that's a much better battle to fight than the same old 'I hate porn so no one is allowed to watch it' stuff which invariably gets hijacked by antifeminists anyway.
I would also like to see a decrease in the power of the heteromonogamy relationship industry and the pressures on women to find, catch and keep-by-constantly-servicing The Man.

@Empusa
I disagree - it can be addictive. Just like alcohol, drugs, gambling, etc...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_addiction

It is not harmless - but like all temptations it's destructive potential is dependent on the pre-disposition of the end user.

I think the ease of access to pornography will only exacerbate the problem of porn addiction.

What is the purpose of porn? Why does it exist?

Amod Addiction involves a physical component, component - though it can cause the same behaviour - doesn't, it's usually mental.

So you get the same situation, a cycle that is difficult to break.

The difference, as I see it, is that a person is not likely to be inclined to addiction, but they can be inclined to compulsion.

Takes this from someone with a few compulsions, they are very similar to addiction. But there are some important differences.

A compulsion is a repetitive, ritualistic behavior that a person performs without rational motivation. Compulsive actions and behaviors offer temporary relief from anxiety ? in turn, the need to reduce this anxiety is what drives the compulsive behavior. Sometimes this anxiety takes the form of obsessive thoughts related to the compulsive behavior (i.e., fear of germs and hand-washing), but often the compulsive behavior has no clear relation to anything in particular (the need to walk all the way around one's car clockwise before getting in).

Addictions, similar to compulsions, can offer relief from stress or anxiety, but are characterized primarily by an inability to discontinue a harmful behavior despite its negative consequences. Common addictions include unhealthy and repeated (over)use of alcohol, drugs, gambling, smoking, or sex. Addictions are easily formed to behaviors that provide physical or psychological pleasure or relief from pain. (It is also worth noting that the psychiatric community no longer uses the term "addiction" for unhealthy patterns of substance abuse; they now prefer the term "dependency.")

Internet porn unfortunately is a sad fact of life and destroys marriages as well as families and ulitimately lives.
I am working on putting together counselling workshops for marriages under threat from internet porn addiction and can offer a device that will allow a spouse, with the willling co operation of the other partner, to control what internet content is accessible in your home and ultimately your marriage.
Stand by for updates while I wait on the site administration for various permissions to post information and adverts in this regard.
Kind Regards
Tass1

The widespread availability of Internet pornography (bad thing?) is destroying the professional porn industry (good thing?).

I think the problem with porn is that it debases women, yes, but also debases sex itself. I can always tell when I sleep with a man if he has watched too much porn, because there is no feeling in it, though not sure which came first here, the chicken or the egg. Therefore it becomes very boring for me very soon (irony!).

The other main problem is its incredible availability now. 30 years ago a person would have to go into a shop and hand over some money for a few photos, and I think this helped restrict it.

I think there are 2 ways of dealing with it currently.

1. Make it less available. That includes having to "opt in" in everything, computers, TV, Sky etc.

1. Educate our children about it once they are teenagers. That sex is special and sacred. That pornography has an effect on what men demand and is exploitative. Girls should be especially educated here, to respect and value themselves, if necessary to go against the tide, no matter what the pressure of the media or the man in their lives.

Though I do share OP's pessimism in many ways, I also think there are possibilities in the future. At one time, everybody smoked cigarettes in this country, it was considered normal and socially acceptable. But things do change.

Janelikesjam , funny you should mention cigarettes, because I was wondering if we'd see a day when the porn industry would be procecuted for the damage they cause, as the tobacco industry has successfully been in the past.
That damage is a very difficult thing to quantify and define at the moment, but so it must have appeared at the time of the first tobacco trial cases. What do you think?

If anything, it might then lead - as has been suggested earlier on this or the other thread- to porn coming with warnings, and being sligtly less easilly available, like packets of cigarettes.
Like you I think things do change, and our perception of what is acceptable or not evolves.

I'm sadly convinced it's a losing battle. I'm part of the pornified generation, if you will, growing up with boys who first saw porn aged 10 and 11. It's got so incredibly normalised in my generation (some guy watched it in class the other day) and I actually think there is less opposition from girls in my age group too.