"An identity reduced to a burka"

[Mamaz0n]

Just read This very thought provoking article and thought i would share.

I was quite surprised to read that there are more women in the iranian government than there are in the US senate.
Dispells a fair few myths i feel.

Cote - probably my fault for not putting it very well. I don't think the state never does anything for the good of the population - but I don't think it initiates things out of pure altruism, either. I don't really trust that the burqua ban is altruistic.

If it serves no real purpose the politicans are doing it for political electioneering. I have no faith in any of them now

That story is not as clear-cut as you seem to think. He denies it, his wife & colleagues believe him. The timing is curious as he was the only realistic contender to Sarkozy in the presidential elections and now his career is finished. A lot of people think this might be a set-up orchestrated by Sarkozy's people.

Comments on this particular story have very little to do with attitudes to sexual assault in France in general.

Whatever we want to celebrate about Iranian women and what power they may or may not have, in law their lives are worth half a mans. So anything championing Iran as some sort of feminist haven is beyond wrong.

" I don't really trust that the burqua ban is altruistic."

So you think that lawmakers somehow benefited from this ban? How?

"To be honest i find the amount of time devoted to what a few women choose to wear astonishing. If you dont like it, dont wear it or talk to a woman wearing it. Ta da."

You can say the same about the ban of any socially unacceptable practice: In Switzerland, it is illegal to publicly say the Holocaust didn't happen. I find the among of time devoted to what a few people choose to say astonishing. If you don't like it, don't say it or don't listen to people saying it. Ta da.

Cannibalism is illegal in most countries. I find the amount of time devoted to what a few people have ever wanted to do astonishing. If you don't like it, don't eat other people's corpses or talk to cannibals. Ta da.

Completely agree with CoteDAzur on this.

Surely the point about the burqa is that it's extremely visible and allows the women to be reduced to her attire alone, she disappears.

Canibalism hurts others. A face veil does not

Who exactly does cannibalism hurt, Riven? The corpse itself?

There are weirdos who leave wills saying they want their bodies to be eaten after their death and even then cannibalism is illegal.

And that is because it is an unacceptable practice in most societies. Just like hiding women away is in some others.

The ingestion of human flesh can harm society as there are many species specific bacteria/viruses/parasites which will then colonise the person doing the eating facilitating the spread of disease. It has also been linked to Kuru which is a human form of mad cow disease (which is why it is often said cannibalism leads to insanity)

So yes cannibalism is harmful

Cook it like any other meat and you will have no harmful bacteria or parasites in your food.

Oh if they die of natural causes then no issues. Soylent breen here we come

Well yes cooking well would minimise risks but unlike cooking beef (or whatever) all the nefarious organisms present are pathogens of humans. And the fact that we have many food related illnesses in the UK shows that we are not so good with cooking food well and it is best for society to stay away from eating other people allowing more pathogenic diseases to spread.

Also kuru disease is related to the build up of prions (found in humans) which cause neurological damage so cooking does not help with that.

I am not so keen on the 'good of society' mentality when it comes to certain things. When there is genuine risk then it is a credible argument but for things like veils it is really just based on what you think is right rather than what is genuinely 'good'.

You are consciously trying not to understand my point.

We are a culture that gauges people by their facial expression, Muslim covered women have none. They can be frightening, just like a Golly, the origins of this practice are not compatible with 2011. Why should a women make herself invisible to accommodate the lust of men?

It is not the case that cannibalism is illegal because the government are worried about people getting CJD!

It is illegal because it is outside the boundaries of what people in this country to be acceptable behaviour. Peculiar to argue otherwise

If you could sterilise dead people's flesh to make it utterly safe for consumption it wouldn't be legalised.

Do you know many people frightened of covered women then? because I don't I know some children can be but I also know children afraid of any person they don't know or someone different from them. Your question can also be reversed why should a woman in relation to her own face need to accommodate the desires of other people. Because whether you like it or not banning or not banning is still about pleasing others.

There is no right to see a persons face they don't owe you that, the only time a person face has to be exposed is for necessary identification or security risks.

There are women who are forced by family to wear it in this country and other parts of the world (although banning would only apply here) but there are many who choose to wear it. And wouldn't banning of the burka just mean that those women who are forced to wear it would instead be forced to stay at home? who does banning the burka help?

My POV on this is that I don't believe it should be banned as I son't think that fits in with how we do things in the UK.

However women who are covered in this way make me feel very uncomfortable. And the reason for this is that covering the face, in the UK, is so far outside the cultural norm that people feel very uncomfortable. Cultural references of face covering = bank robbers, the IRA. That is not going to change overnight.

I don't know if I'd ban it, I hope education would help people not choosing to wear it. If a woman wants tro be an accepted part of society where people feel free to engage with her she shouldn't wear the burka. I would have no desire to engage with such a woman...same as if she were wearing a helmet.

Education is fine along the lines of 'you don't have to wear the burka' and not 'The burka is evil don't you dare wear it' because then it is just imposing what you feel is right (right being your cultural and social background no further basis than that) on others.

I don't like the Burka and like you I feel that it would be better if women didn't wear it I just feel that forcibly taking it off women is also oppressive. And France certainly didn't do it for the good of women.

I'm not so sure, I heard some fabulous discussions by Muslim women in the government about it. France feels that the 'banning' sends a certain message to its people. Afterall only a very few women wear it, but the message is clearly one that will prevent more from don g the same. I would gladly see this sort of practice disappear from living memory.

I would like to see people telling women that they are not responsible for men's behaviour and therefore do not have to wear the burka....

I would like to see people telling women that they are not responsible for men's behaviour and therefore do not have to wear the burka....

Id like to see people telling women they are not responsible for mens behaviour and therefore should wear whatver they like from burka to bikini. I am going on slutwalk for this very reason.

Riveninside, I assume you know why people wear the burka? Or rather why they think they should. It is solely about being tempting to men. I think it's anti Western statement too, given the rise in wearing it wherever we (the West) have invaded. When a woman, in the West, chooses to become invisible she must accept that she is not seen and only her burka is the focus, she becomes a non being.