"An identity reduced to a burka"

[Mamaz0n]

Just read This very thought provoking article and thought i would share.

I was quite surprised to read that there are more women in the iranian government than there are in the US senate.
Dispells a fair few myths i feel.

[Riveninside]

Will be shouting from bloody rooftops i tell you!

[CoteDAzur]

Do let us know when you are back on pooter

[Riveninside]

Am on phone as pooter broke or id give long eloqeunt reply. When i get it fixed we shall engage :)

[CoteDAzur]

I expect a bit more after calling you a smart and reasonable woman on here

[Riveninside]

Because i want too

[CoteDAzur]

"the reasoning behind the niqab/burqa is to cover your ornaments (hair, breasts, etc) from men"

Except that Quran explains what to hide in some detail, and nowhere does it say to hide your entire face. Hence my question why.

[CoteDAzur]

Riven - I'm not sure if being a devout Muslim has a lot to do with the wish to wear the niqab, because (1) I have read the Quran and it describes how to wear the headscarf in detail. Nowhere does it say cover all your face and leave a slit for eyes, and (2) I know quite a few devout Muslim women including my grandmother and none of them wear the niqab.

So, I think there must be some reasoning behind the niqab that is independent of the Quran, so essentially not that related to being a devout Muslim.

I would really like to hear why you wear the niqab, if you wouldn't mind telling us.

[CrapolaDeVille]

Surely a religious person gets their ideas from religious scripture, unless one truly believes they have direct messages from God that they can hear in words, and therefore the reasoning behind the niqab/burqa is to cover your ornaments (hair, breasts, etc) from men so that men can avoid temptation. I'm not sure I buy into this 'make up my own reasons it's between me and God nonsense. Can Muslim women not read the Koran? Do they just make up their own rules?

I agree about society as a whole too, Cote makes fabulous points. It seems rather trite to say objectifying women is fundamentally wrong for society but hiding them behind reams of fabric is not.

[Riveninside]

If you are not religious im not sure you could understand to be honest

[alexpolismum]

Once again I come back to find that CoteDAzur has said what I would have said.

We did go through all of this extensively in the French burka ban threads, but just to clarify, I believe that a ban is for the good of society as a whole, as I believe that the wearing of the burka is detrimental to society's attitude to women in general.

Riven - I think that the Strauss-Kahn affair and the burka are two entirely separate issues and I find it odd that you conflate the two.

[CoteDAzur]

Well, I care about what you think, because after so many years of "talking" on here, I think you are a smart and reasonable woman. And I would like to hear why a smart and reasonable woman would want to look like this in public, especially since it is not required by her religion.

[Straight2Extremes]

Sorry I got Niqab confused with the Hijab

[Riveninside]

Niqab is face veil
Hijab is head scarf
Burqa is afghani full body robe with a mesh to see through. Bloody awful imo as it does restrict vision

[Riveninside]

Being pedantic its a niqab. And i wear it for a number of reasons. Given the genral unpleasantness on mn about niqabis is there really any point asking me? The internet is full of testinonies of much more eloqeunt women than me explaining why they wear it. Anti-face veil people dont want to listen.

But you are right in that it is not expected in the Quran and certainly not required. I also think even the hijab head scarf isnt required (lots of opinions differ on that) but i made a personal spiritual choice to wear it, as do many sisters i know. I also am not brave enough to wear it in certain places because of racism and hatred and have been attacked. We have lots of EDL here and I am scared and angry my choice is taken away from me. If we didnt have dd and were so vunerable id be a lot braver but Fiona Pilkington is in my mind constantly. I am petrified of attracting EDL attention so i put it on when i am far from home.
How sad is it i am too scared in my own country and on my own streets :(

[Straight2Extremes]

Niqab is not the same as a Burka it only covers the head.

[CoteDAzur]

Riven - Why do you wear the burqa? I'm genuinely interested. Having read the Quran, my understanding is that Allah does not expect it. So why?

[Riveninside]

And for most niqab women i know its soley about God. I dont give a flying wotsit whT men think.

[Riveninside]

Course i do crapola. Being a niqab wearing muslim woman myself. But i know we are not allowed an opinion on mn.

[CrapolaDeVille]

Riveninside, I assume you know why people wear the burka? Or rather why they think they should. It is solely about being tempting to men. I think it's anti Western statement too, given the rise in wearing it wherever we (the West) have invaded. When a woman, in the West, chooses to become invisible she must accept that she is not seen and only her burka is the focus, she becomes a non being.

[Riveninside]

I would like to see people telling women that they are not responsible for men's behaviour and therefore do not have to wear the burka....


Id like to see people telling women they are not responsible for mens behaviour and therefore should wear whatver they like from burka to bikini. I am going on slutwalk for this very reason.

[CrapolaDeVille]

I would like to see people telling women that they are not responsible for men's behaviour and therefore do not have to wear the burka....

[CrapolaDeVille]

I'm not so sure, I heard some fabulous discussions by Muslim women in the government about it. France feels that the 'banning' sends a certain message to its people. Afterall only a very few women wear it, but the message is clearly one that will prevent more from don g the same. I would gladly see this sort of practice disappear from living memory.

[Straight2Extremes]

Education is fine along the lines of 'you don't have to wear the burka' and not 'The burka is evil don't you dare wear it' because then it is just imposing what you feel is right (right being your cultural and social background no further basis than that) on others.

I don't like the Burka and like you I feel that it would be better if women didn't wear it I just feel that forcibly taking it off women is also oppressive. And France certainly didn't do it for the good of women.

[CrapolaDeVille]

I don't know if I'd ban it, I hope education would help people not choosing to wear it. If a woman wants tro be an accepted part of society where people feel free to engage with her she shouldn't wear the burka. I would have no desire to engage with such a woman...same as if she were wearing a helmet.

[SardineQueen]

My POV on this is that I don't believe it should be banned as I son't think that fits in with how we do things in the UK.

However women who are covered in this way make me feel very uncomfortable. And the reason for this is that covering the face, in the UK, is so far outside the cultural norm that people feel very uncomfortable. Cultural references of face covering = bank robbers, the IRA. That is not going to change overnight.