I'm not going to read the Daily Mail anymore

[MarionCole]

or fashion/gossip magazines. Not that I read the latter anyway, but I do go onto the Mail website under the premise of "understanding your enemy".

But following on from recent threads I've realised that the obsession with how women look is insidious and actually does affect how I feel about how I look.

So, every time I end up on the website I have to put £5 in my money box.

Hello! Nice to 'see' you riveninside.

I think you're right about it going off the scale - it's scary how fast botox and surgery have gone from being taboo and seen as strange, to being seen as almost a normal part of 'looking after yourself'.

Ooh I've just realised I've replied to a post on the 'feminism' thread. And am a bit scared. Sorry

Gawd, is that Liz Jones RS "mystery" still rumbling on? I saw a thread about it on here aaaages ago! Can't believe it's been spun out so far.

Within 10 yearz Dragon. When i had my older kids no one cared what you wore and yummy labels didnt exist. Not its all judginess and the school run dress. If you dont take part you are judged and lablled.
And now botox being seen as every day and normal. Ffs, its a dangerous procedure. Madness to inject toxin into your face!

Yes, I think it's less than 10 years. I don't think when I first started buying glossy mags they would talk openly about cosmetic surgery - except maybe making a sly remark about some celeb 'getting her boobs done'. It wasn't something for normal people.

Oh, and Moo, what is the Liz Jones thing? Last I read of her she was in the country and didn't like it, but that was yonks ago! She came across as unpleasant but not especially unpleasant towards women in particular, but I'm getting the impression that's not/no longer true?

LRD - Actually she seems pretty unpleasant towards everybody and everything expect animals . She appears to have some issues....

She has moved back to London but still has her country pile, although apparently she's struggling for money. And she's been dating a rock star for ages now and it's all going well despite him constantly asking her to stop writing about him and her refusing to do so. She won't name him but says he used to be a major rock star and still plays with his band. He doesn't drink as he used to be an alcoholic. He has numerous ex wives and grown up children - one of which (his daughter) has either just had a baby or is about to.

Sorry if you didn't really want that much detail

Wow ... she sounds ... interesting!

I think I'll live without reading about that. Will be trickier keeping myself off Grazia and the rest though, but they are a right waste of money.

I think it all started with Sex and the City. That's when we as a nation became obsessed with shoes, I think.

Two of the best things I have ever done for my mental wellbeing were to not buy print media (save for the odd copy of Private Eye and a specialist sport magazine) and get Sky+ (now a hard driver recorder) so I can forward through the ads. Once I cut myself off from a whole chunk of marketing, it surprised me just how different my world view became, as well as my view of myself. And once I had distanced myself, it was amazing to see how clearly so much of the copy in magazines and newspapers is simply (barely) rewritten press releases. I am not less informed now. In fact, I trust that snippets of information come my way whether through friends or forums like MN and then I go and search for more info, rather than being spoonfed. And I can live without knowing what's hot this month in the fashion stakes. I have eyes, I can see trends in the shops and in the street.

And I agree about the declining quality of the women's glossies. Marie Claire in the 90s was brilliant at interesting and informative articles about women's lives around the world. And yes to the shoe thing! WTF happened there? Was SATC reflecting a trend or did it create it?

Heh - x-post on the SATC thing. Same goes for Brazilians.

Heh indeed!

I'll have to get my mum onto this. My very intelligent, take-no-shit, glass-ceiling-busting mother reads the DM. The only thing she proffers in defence is 'I want to win the cottage'. She could have bought a bloody thatched cottage with money saved from not buying That Rag. Perhaps I'll get her a glass jar with 'cottage fund' emblazoned upon it...

And the plastic surgery thing is getting everywhere. My Groupon voucher came through the other day: for discount plastic surgery! I sent them a complaining email but have yet to hear back.

Something else I was thinking about in bed this morning when I should have been getting up - men's magazines like GQ used to have intelligent discussions in them too, didn't they?

Marion - oh God, SATC and shoes drives me nuts. I love shoes, don't get me wrong, and I do wear heels, but I just Do.Not.Get the Jimmy Choo/Manolo Blahnik crap ... they usually look like little girls' fantasy shoes to me, all sparkly and strappy. Is it that a generation of girls were put in StartRite by their sensible 70s feminist mums and therefore love SATC giving them what they wanted when they were 5?

I don't know if men's mags have got worse - would be interesting to know, though. DH doesn't buy them so I don't get any exposure really.

I have never see SATC. Will i explode in a fuming heap if i watch it?

I still think its weird people cannot say 'shoes' or 'skirt' or 'handbag'. They mjst name it. 'my prada skirt' or whatever.
Why?
Just why?

You will Riven. The premise of the programme is meant to be about how empowered these single successful women are. However, every episode revolves around being attractive to men / getting a man / keeping a man.

Yes, I'm afraid you will, Riven! It's very much 'of its time' - in a way it was great because I think for people my age it did get us talking about things like enjoying sex, or masturbation, or the importance of close female friends (as opposed to women you 'gossip' or 'bitch' with, which seems to be the common image of what women do together). But I'm not sure how well it's aged and the narration by Carrie is fucking annoying.

Sunday Times article today:

"Why do fillers frequently look so false?"

It gives a list of alternatives to lip fillers, leaving the fuck alone is not one of them. Instead, I quote:

"Another option is to grown old gracefully...All very well. But Veronique Simon's verdict would probably resonate more with the average woman: Things have changed. You can't just be a grandmamma making pasta and getting old any more"

I wish DH wouldn't buy it. It has put me in a bad mood for the day.

I like pasta.