The Burning Times: fascinating docu on women's power before Christianity

[sakura]

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ANd why women are feared to the extent that they are accused of witchcraft and killed for it

Sorry MI, I have crossposted with you.

Thank you, Milly. I did, obviously, know about the Greek and Roman and Norse ones. Quite a lot about them, from a geeky childhood.

"women being tortured to death for carrying out spiritual healing" is one representation of what happened. In my understanding, they weren't murdered for spiritual healing, they were murdered because they (were perceived to have) threatened the absolute rule of the church: something it was very easy to do in those times, even unintentionally, since the rules kept changing.

The church viewed any form of science as a threat, including medicine. Galileo had to recant his physics theories in order to avoid being burned. Herbal medicine was supposed to be the exclusive domain of monasteries. It was, as usual, about a monopoly of power. As usual, too, women caught the sharp end of the power struggle. But that doesn't mean it was an offensive against women specifically.

Long academic/literary history arguing for pre-historic matriarchy/matrilinearity/goddess worship: Bachofen, Das Mutterrecht, Jane Ellen Harrison, Themis, etc.

Then there's the prevalence of Venus figurines from the stone age. Tempting to assume there was a dominant mother goddess cult.

(Although actually I am not sure if I want my Motherliness worshipped in any case.)

In reply to dittany, Mon 30-May-11 23:06:21 :-

Yes, I do think that such misrepresentation of facts, on a feminist platform, plays into the hands of rape apologists. This is because a common rape 'apology' is that women rewrite history and contort facts in order to incriminate men.

Going further, misogynists often aim to debunk feminist theory by highlighting factual errors and deliberate misrepresentations. It breaks my heart that this is quite easy to do. I see it often on these threads - too often to respond, unfortunately.

It's not good enough to say "Men rewrite history; why shouldn't we?" Our arguments should be rock solid - logical to the core - so as to withstand attack. Polemic doesn't stand the test.

motherinferior, our Western civilization comes from Greece. Athens was named after the Goddess Athena, who was the protector of the city. The Parthenon is her temple and people worshipped her and gave offerings to her. They worshipped both Goddesses and Gods, and people were free to choose which one of the pantheon they had as their favourite.

Claig, I know that. I keep saying I know that. I know loads and loads and loads about it. It is those pre-Christian matriarchal systems that I am asking about.

Penthesileia, the existence of 'goddess' figurines proves about as much as the existence of Mary figurines today.

Thank you, garlicbutter, that's what I was asking about.

garlicbutter: yes, I know. They will defy conclusive interpretation without any further supporting evidence. But motherinferior asked what evidence, such as it is, there is for prehistoric matriarchies/goddess cults, and I was answering her.

So there are some artefacts which are open to interpretation (I do realise this is pretty well par for the course with archaology ).

Dittany,

You have an unhealthy obsession with the malleus and don't seem to understand that it was discredited almost immediately by the ecclesiastical authorities. Never let the facts stand in the way of a good rant, eh?
Starhawk has a similar problem; she has no respect for fact, rationale or perspective. No intelligent person would respect the view of one who blatantly lies about known facts.
The reason the malleus was so "popular" (illiteracy was the norm amongst men as well) is for the very reason you are clearly getting off on reading it today; not because it received widespread respect for its contribution to the issue of heresy, whch you still appear to see as entirely gender specific. It was thinly veiled covert lust and you appear to be as susceptible to its charms now as others were at the time. Still quite a good read, isn't it? Enjoy......

swallowedAfly Mon 30-May-11 23:55:26

i need to find something that i read last week that this is reminding me of.

it was saying that women could get so caught up in fear of getting something wrong or not being 100% accurate that feminists never end up writing/theorising anything. that they handicap themselves with unreachable standards that no one else has bothered with.

Not a problem Starhawk has ever encountered.