The Burning Times: fascinating docu on women's power before Christianity

[sakura]

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ANd why women are feared to the extent that they are accused of witchcraft and killed for it

Yes, the Christians removed a lot of the feminine, but they kept some in teh form of Mary etc. Healing can be carried out at teh shrine of Our Lady of Lourdes etc., so the feminine principle is used, but only one sanctioned by the church. Women healers and wise women had existed since the beginning of time, but at a certain point in history, there does seem to have been a concerted attempt by the church, in particular, to stamp out any opposition to their female healing principle.

Does anybody know, if Catholics nowadays travel on pilgrimage to be healed by holy women, by the laying on of hands etc. Are there female saints who still perform miracles? I don't know much about Mother Teresa, but are any claims made that she had these powers?

swallowed - what on earth do you mean that abrahamic religions don't see the feminine in the divine? What about the huge medieval tradition of Christ the Mother? The Pelican feeding her young?

swallowed - the anger is because, no, in my opinion people do not have the right to falsify the truth in the service of their own beliefs, whether that's pretending the world was created in 7 days against all evidence, or whether it's re-dating the coming of Christianity by a thousand years. It's insulting to real people whose lives you whitewash over.

I found it really offensive that their version of history pretends some amazing women (Hild of Whitby's been mentioned) just ... couldn't have existed. Because it makes a better story.

The thing is in those days both women and men were oppressed by the rich and powerful. People were slaves and beaten by owners etc. In the 17th and 18th century people were hanged for stealing a loaf of bread. There weren't many human rights then.

But there were male and female healers and herbalists, and I think there were more female healers. People were very superstitious in those days and they believed in the evil eye and being cursed etc. and every now and then they would persecute healers who they thought may have cursed them or who had powers. But it doesn't seem to have been as systematic as it was in teh Middle Ages under the Church. Why all of a sudden did it take on such epic proportions in teh Middle Ages? I think they wanted to establish their hegemony and frighten teh people into obeying their will.

Claig,

Miracles are attributed to St.Brigid and Mary, of course (although, unsurprisingly, none have ever been reliably documented) Given that Mother Theresa is well on her way to beatification, I suspect that all manner of supernatural wonders will be superimposed upon her. Unfortunately, her powers didn't extend to concealing the $50m dollars she had stashed in a New York bank account (and that is just one of many, apparently) Journalist Christopher Hitchens wrote a book on her called "The Missionary position" which is well worth your effort

swallowed, you said they didn't 'see the feminine in the divine'. IMO, seeing Christ as a mother rather knocks that theory back.

I think Christianity is a patriarchial religion, especially in the period we're talking about ... but based on the iconography and imagery, you could draw the same conclusions about woman power that people draw from pre-historical female images and artefacts. This is not exactly rocket science, just an excellent reason to be cautious about making up stories.

claig, the majority of Witch Trials aren't medieval.

Taking a female role and giving it to a man doesn't sound entirely pro-women to me.

'Unfortunately, her powers didn't extend to concealing the $50m dollars she had stashed in a New York bank account'

I didn't know that. I'll have to read up about that.

'claig, the majority of Witch Trials aren't medieval.'

When are they? Before or after?

I don't think it is taking a female role and giving it to a man, though. I think it's saying that Christ is feminine.

There have been loads of women (and men) who have insisted that God is feminine or has a feminine aspect. This does not mean they did not live in societies that oppressed women. So why on earth does anyone imagine that finding a statue of a woman goddess in some way proves that women had special powers they were then able to pass on in a long tradition to the modern day? Yet that is precisely the chain of events that film shows us. Why? Because it's hoping we're too thick to see it's rubbish.

claig - early Modern.

There are a range of Abrahamic texts with divine feminine archetypes in them, notably Sophia in the Gnostic tradition. Of course those texts weren't the ones chosen as the official version of the religion, and I wonder why God became entirely male in the Abrahamic religions. Of course they were operating within patriarchal societies, but that is true of many other religions that didn't end up viewing God as entirely male.

'and who gives a shit at that exact moment of the discussion - wasn't it more interesting to look at her point of why would it all swell into such a hub of activity at one moment rather than to just correct her without addressing what she said at all?'

Sorry, say again? Whose point?