The Burning Times: fascinating docu on women's power before Christianity

[sakura]

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#at=380 youtube]]

ANd why women are feared to the extent that they are accused of witchcraft and killed for it

whoops! sorry! certainly wouldn't have recommended a book by starhawk to provide a different perspective on a film by, um, starhawk.
must read threads in full, must read threads in full....

Right I'm off to eat the buns my DD & DH-to-be made today with a cuppa.

You see men can stay at home and "Bake buns and suck my " too!

Bye

Ha ha

Wish I had a privilaged background - working class girl from Hull me matey!

Terraced house, bog standard comp. But I've worked bloody hard, full time, 3 kids and but yes now I'm comfortable.

Tory, feminist, republic promoting all round idiot really. I like wine, cooking and red is my favourite colour and today I am wearing...........

And I can't spell privileged...

This is another half truth. Knowledge of herbs etc was widespread (by necessity) and not exclusive to women. Herbal knowledge was a feature of monastic life, the Benedictines and, a little later, the Cistercians being expert, having copied texts from the ancients. Long beofre 1132.
Starhawk is an American self publicist who has botched together idealised bits and bobs from all manner of unlikely quarters and spun them into something that initially took root in California (surprise, surprise) and then, by way of some dreadful new age books with airbrushed covers, spread like swine flu to the gullible elsewhere. Until she was mentioned here, I hadn't heard of her for the best part of 15 years or more.
The fact that she was an advisor to this film would explain a lot; she was never one to let rational analysis or reasoned historical perspective intrude on her 60's LSD casualty view of the world.
If you know anything of the western mystery traditions, you'll know that the hoseshit she peddles has about as much validity as her last president's wisdom in the field of geography.

But no-one knows that paganism had anything to do with female spirituality. You might as well say that given Catholics venerate the Virgin Mary, Catholicism must be a religion of female spirituality.

All that guff about women preserving traditions was just that - guff. We have no idea what traditions they might have preserved but I am 100% sure it was not 'bending and shaping consciousness' for the reasons that woman claimed.

yep it is SAF[its a shame this thread.......]
im finding this very interesting.
yes-id like to see a proper discussion on the same things youve just mentioned also.
a question[to anyone/everyone]-
im not sure what to think about the timing of history but i do agree that its important to aknowledge that this did happen to women[and is still happpening]
how can timing be right when long ago a lot of people couldnt read and write?
would this mean that we have only got the writings of the more privaledged?

LRD you are rather angry about this film aren't you?

Perhaps it should be used in context to the world that was then and were we are now - I haven't watched it - but I think the important thing right now is that it's still going on in many parts of the world.

Lets compare say the Middle East with China.

I did a bit of homework on the Green Man, having recently moved onto his home turf. You can't walk a hundred yards round here without seeing one. Was quite surprised at what an old misogynist he is. And not particularly nice, either. He could be just as vicious as Jehovah. I was expecting to find that the old religion had been all fruit, fertility and flowers, not to mention woman-friendly. But, nah :(

Why compare the Middle East with China, Kate?

But if no-one knows that it did, no-one equally knows that it didn't. This is what always gets me about all the history stuff. Beyond a certain point, we do not know. We interpret things that are available to us now through lenses we place on them now. The history we tell now is framed by patriarchy. Once we've smashed it (so maybe 2015?) we'll look at it through different frames. Just like people 200 hundred years ago would have talked about 600 year old history differently. The stories we tell have to resonate with the now for them to make sense. So an alternative telling of history does not make me think 'oh look here's the truth' any more that a malestream history makes me think 'here's the truth'. There all parts of a picture that we do not know the answer to cos there isn't one.

It's like the joke thing with the different events that were the start of Christianity in the UK, or whatever they are. Whilst I've no idea what you're referring to, cos it isn't my bag, there are seem to be several options you can pick from. Much like why did the war start, cos some guy got shot. Well yes but there's a heck of a lot more to it than that.

BTW did anyone else read the other link I posted waaay back. Interested in whether that is seen as inaccurate too as I don't have the historical knowledge to know.

(And when I was googling I found a link to only blooming Mary Daly speaking so utterly off topic but I thought people might like it away)

Sparky, that's kinda what I'm saying too. And you've reminded me, the post that says something about going in the church to look at the records of this stuff as that's where they're kept. Really? Cos they won't be a teensy bit biased or anything

I'm not entirely sure that 'forcing' is the right word for syncretism. It's the secret of christianity's success - as, indeed, of every religion that's taken over from its predecessors. In Latin America, syncretism is very much visible - christianity runs parallel with macumba/santeria/candomble, with each of the African spirits allied to a christian saint.