feminism shouldn't just be about rape

[tvmum1976]

controversial topic. I've written a blog about it and wonder what people think?

'There are enough extremely interesting feminist blogs written by people who know a lot about feminism'

Yes. I agree and had pussyfooted around saying so - but tv, I just feel that unless the blog is primarily for you as an outlet for your thoughts (nothing wrong with that) or as a 'my feminist journey' kind of learning-in-process blog (nothing wrong with that either), I'm not quite sure why it's there?

I do understand that must sound like a heartless thing to say - but I'd honestly rather see one really exciting, eloquent, sound feminist opinion out there than ten wishy-washy 'do I agree with feminism or not' kind of things.

There are enough extremely interesting feminist blogs written by people who know a lot about feminism and women's issues and who are interested in explaining it further, not to need one written by someone who isn't interested, hasn't investigated even in a cursory manner, and who writes kneejerk tabloid antifeminism.

wow- i really think this is unnecessarily hostile. I am obviously interested- have written, engaged with every point in this discussion and for the ones that i haven't agreed with immediately have always sought clarification or more information before arguing against. I have, as I said, investigated this topic in more than a cursory manner. And there is no such thing as a feminist consensus that can merely be 'explained' and never has been. THere has always been a wide variety of (often conflicting) views within the feminist movement.

LRD- thanks for expressing the same point in a slightly more decent manner. Although I'm not sure what you mean by your 'do I agree with feminism or not' point. As I said, there is no one 'feminism' to agree or disagree with,but a wide range of views. I have never been remotely conflicted about whether I was a feminist or not, and have identified as one for the last 30 years or so.

tv - I meant that, to me, that's how your blog and your OP here come across, like someone trying to work out whether or not they want to think of themselves as a feminist, and whether they agree with other feminist views.

It's not a bad thing, it's just that personally, I don't really want to read about it on a blog. Others may; just my view since you asked for it.

LRD- sorry- I realise you have also made the same point yourself about their not being one feminist viewpoint....point taken.

sorry LRD- cross posts- fair enough- thanks for your input

Thanks for correcting that tv.

But yes, what dittany quotes gives me pause too - that's the sort of thing I meant when I said it sounded as if you were trying to decide whether or not you wanted to identify as a feminist.

I think also, I'm uneasy that you seem to see your blog as an alternative to mainstream newsprint and possibly aspiring to the same authority? To write something like a blog and then comment like that on other feminists seems very inappropriate, to me.

Ok, fair point. As I said before in earlier posts, I was certainly overly harsh on the LFN, and pps were right to point out the wider range of their work and activities.

I do standby my view that I have repeated several times that I do think that the wider work of the LFN, beyond Reclaim the Night has failed to punch through to the mainstream and I think that is a real shame.

None of this was about whether I wanted to identify as a feminist or not, and I think if you read what I had written again you would not come to the same conclusion.
I have read a good deal about the feminist movement over the years, and have been involved in it since childhood, have written for feminist publications, and have always vociferously defended feminist causes, although recently have been discouraged from getting very involved in feminist activism for the reason that I feel that it has become dominated by this one issue (whether fairly or unfairly.)

I'm extremely happy to engage in debate about all of this, but felt like a couple of the posts have been disproportionately attacking.

sorry, to add to that, I do take on board both of your points re undermining the LFN and apologise for that.

But you're not vociferously defending feminist causes on the blog - I guess that is what bothers me.

I think you got off on the wrong foot TVMum. If you want to introduce yourself to feminists, it's probably best not to do it by attacking a group of other feminists.

Fair enough. What I don't understand though, is why you didn't just say this in the first place rather than hurling abuse at me. It seems like an odd way to make your (totally reasonable) point, and also undermines the point itself (ie- don't attack other feminists.)

I am totally prepared to listen to comments along the lines of: what I say is meaningless and unoriginal, my writing is bad, I am undermining important organisations and people, I have nothing to add to the debate, what I am saying is offensive to rape victims etc etc. What I object to is the accusation that I'm not interested in feminism, that I am any less a feminist than anyone else and that I know nothing about the subject and haven't done my research, and a pp's assertion that I see myself as a 'mighty' journalist 'deigning' to come on a feminist forum, which truly is rubbish.

You started by saying you were being controversial, you had to expect a robust response!

good point!

Great question. Would love to see a more upbeat kind of feminism, that is fun to participate in. Definitely more stuff to do with gender stereotyping of kids- it is truly vile to walk into any toyshop these days and much worse than when i was a kid. Think the Fawcett society are good- although (and I know this sounds like a ridiculously minor point)- their name doesn't tell you anything about what they do, so it's hard for their message to get across. In general would like to see more high profile advocates who are proud to identify as feminists- especially role models that young girls can aspire to. More work with kids generally around feminist issues.
Also lots of stuff to do with things that get very little coverage- one example: the universal credit (iain duncan smith's new benefit changes) are majorly disadvantageous to women, and they are paid only to one family member (the so called 'head of the family) which I believe is just a recipe for men to steal from women and children and a huge setback for the guiding principles of family allowance campaigners etc (should "go in the purse and not the wallet"). I have tried to sell countless pieces about this with no result.
Equal pay, obviously, comparable worth (the NHS test case was a great example- more of these please), lots and lots of stuff to do with motherhood and the way it is discussed and written about.
More women in senior positions. Far far less sexism on TV (get rid of the old wise man, with cute young girl co-presenter type shtick...) and on the radio particularly (radio 1 is particularly vile.)
As a general 'tone' thing- I think that feminism in general has a bad and hostile image and would love to see this lifted. I remember going to university for the first time- wanted to join a feminist group, but all they seemed to want to do was issue me with a rape alarm and a bunch of stern warnings about going out at night. (i hope this has changed in the intervening years.) I think to put money into the 'branding' of feminism would be a good thing- it seems superficial but is actually really important in today's world.

What are your thoughts? What have I missed?

sexist kid's stuff and positive role models

workplace quality and celebs aligning themselves They are named after Millicent Fawcett, in case you didn't make the connection.

branding 1 branding 2 Object were featured in the documentary you have seen. Have a look also at the feminist fridays link for the 'fun', 'upbeat' things you can do.

fighting the cuts

Feminists are the people who fight against the 'don't walk after dark' crap, not the ones who perpetuate it.

Did I get everything?

HI Alice,
Thanks for the links. I don't know whether you were posting them in the spirit of: "what you are saying isn't new- it is already being tackled." if you were- please don't be under the impression that I thought I was giving a bunch of new ideas- only responding to a question about what I was interested in. If you weren't then apologies for being defensive!

That's OK. But no I was posting them more as in, here are some organisations you might be interested in knowing more about and here is evidence that feminists don't just talk about rape, tailored to what you're interested in. Meant to also mention that most of them were also at FiL, run by LFN, that was featured in the documentary, running workshops. Women against the cuts wasn't as it was formed after by women who got together on that day.

hi Alice- thanks for that. lots of good stuff. I am a member of the fawcett society and have written a couple of pieces about pink stinks. Didn't know about the women against the cuts org, so thanks for bringing it to my attention. Sorry again about defensiveness- feeling a little bruised by this whole thread, although as someone said, it is obviously what I should have expected by posting on a controversial topic.
Dittany: I have already apologised for being overly harsh on the LFN, although I think there is a difference between criticising an organisation and an individual- i think it is hard to be 'abusive' to an organisation. You are right that I did ask for peoples' opinions. I had hoped that perhaps they would be phrased a little more reasonably, but there you go. Obviously I was 'asking for it.'