Rape sentencing etc being discussed on PMQs now

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Justice Secretary made some stupid remarks this morning, apparently.

Audio here

His experience of rape trials was as a lawyer. For which side, I wonder.

I think you might be right that it is under (12?) that children are deemed incapable of giving consent. So it is always rape. With older children I'm not sure what happens but it is a bit different. Certainly young people are not generally sent to prison for underage sex.

Sexual activity with a child, LRD

So he was wrong, basically.

This is so fucking depressing.

Sorry I am finding myself swearing more and more on here.

This bit (amongst others) has me horrified:
(from the Guardian)

"During other television interviews Clarke appeared to claim that campaigners had only singled out rape because it injected a degree of "sexual excitement" into the argument over discounts for early guilty pleas."

I think that summarises his attitude.

"Forcible rape where the woman is unwilling"

What a dick. He should be fired.

Possibly do think there could be a case for a different offence for having sex with a girl who's under 16. If the girl has a genuine relationship with a boy, and especially where he isn't much older than her, then I wouldn't say that was rape. Of course the key thing is the experience of the woman, and whether the sex was consensual.
I think the law may be old-fashioned in places, and in need of improvement and clarification.
I know people who've had sex before age 16 and as far as I know it's been OK for them, and not something they've so far regretted.
Hopefully it will do some good to have these issues discussed more fully.

So now a man who has a fantasy of raping someone could well think it worthwhile if he is out in 15 months to continue the rest of his life

I do understand that are there some distinctions to be made about rape..the term rape for someone having sex with a willing teenager muddies the water a bit..but in the end it is still a crime and is there to protect teenagers from coercion etc
Kenneth Clarke sound like he has no empathy or sympathy for rape victims

Having sex with someone under the age of 16 is not considered rape - it is sex with a minor. Having sex with someone under the age of 12 is considered statutory rape.

He really should know the difference. What a complete cock.

juggling consesual sex between teenagers, although theoretically illegal, is very very rarely reported or investigated, let alone prosecuted.

The CPS only bring cases where it is in the public interest to do so, it is not generally deemed to be in the public interest to prosecute.

The reason that the age of consent is set at 16 is to assist in cases of grooming and that type of crime. I don't believe that the age of consent should be removed personally.

I think there is either a law or a general application of the law, that will not prosecute/imprison men for having sex with a girl under 16 if they are (say) within 2-3 years of that age. I would like someone to ask a parliamentary question about how many teenagers are currently incarcerated for having consensual sex on the grounds that their partner was under 16.

Kenneth Clerk seems very hazy on all this considering he's the Justice Secretary!

I admit I may have been a bit hazy on the detail of the law myself, but it turns out the law does pretty much see things along my lines after all, despite the confusion caused by KC's comments, who should know better as he's paid to know these things, and to communicate them effectively.

As usual MNers are more informative and wiser than cabinet ministers.

Why am I at all surprised ?

I think Abs started a thread asking for him to be invited.

Who the fuck does he think he is? Whoopi Goldberg?

Men who appear to be fuzzy about rape and consent must be either rapists or shit lovers. Definitely time for a webchat. But, of course, politicians are only interested in MN when they want to get elected.

He is wrong about the whole under 16 thing. We explored the SOA and age here

full transcript for anyone whose blood pressure is up to it.

It's really bad. Like, really really bad. I can't believe he came out with all that. He's the frigging justice minister.

What of his claim that average tariffs for rape are reduced by the presence in the figures of 18 yo having consensual sex with 15yo?

it's nonsense.

What kind of rape is there where the victim is willing?

swc - don't you think he should know what the law is, given he's the Justice Secretary? This is hardly some esoteric area of the law

Can we agree it's probably all three? :o

Oh god, I am so, so angry about this. After the whole DSK thing, it feels like rape is just like stealing a few sweets or something to so many men

i was so angry when i saw this i cried!
wtf-they already get light sentences already[if that]and probebly do half
then a bit more took off.
fuck me-youd get more for stealing a chicken from asdas if this goes ahead!
the next thing will be someone patting the rapist on the back saying"youll be alright mate"-no-wait..........................

[rusty shears emoticon]

actually-when the goverment are busy looking at the american system of healthcare to see how they can change ours-they should be looking at the american courts/prison system and change ours instead[of the healthcare]
give the bastards a few hundred years and let the fuckers plea bargain with this instead.
then give them hard time!
over here they get given "get out of jail"cards instead!