Pro-life/ Pro-choice?

[thefinerthingsinlife]

I am a very vocal supporter of pro-choice. It's a women's body therefore it is her choice whether she continues with a pregnancy.

I've come across alot of pro-life supporters lately who put the right of the baby above that of the mother, which I think is madness.

I was wondering what everyone else thought

Pro-choice, at any time, for any reason, up to term.

I hate that this is my stance, I hate that abortion is ever needed, but any other stance is, IMO, discriminatory and disablist.

There should be no limits - I highly doubt that the number of late abortions would increase, it's not something anyone goes into lightly.

Nope, well not one of the political parties wants to touch it, we are still in the territory of boycotting the outside and taking pictures of women using certain advisory clinics here!! The 1967 Abortion Act wasn't extended to NI and there was a movement last year to discuss updating the law but it got nowhere quickly.

The NI Alliance Party was more "sympathetic" to an update but they have done very well in the recent elections and now definitely don't want to be seen as a vocal pro-choice party. Nothing unites all NI politicians quicker than the mention of availabilty of abortion in NI. About 100 women a year receive an abortion actually in NI due to medical reasons but these are reasons of a threat to mothers physical or mental health. It is estimated that about 1,800 women a year travel to "the mainland" for an abortion.

"I pray (yes I do know how at odds this may sound) that my daughters will grow up with the same choice that other women in the UK have."

I think it's a huge shame that Christian pro-choice women have allowed the anti-choice movement to claim the "holy" ground. People seem to forget that in the US at least, churches were instrumental in campaigning for abortion.

I'm not in US, I'm a NI Catholic so to be honest it is actually at odds with my religion that I would ask God to ensure that my daughters could safely and legally have an abortion here.

I seriously object to the term "pro-life". These people are pro-whose lives exactly? Not the mother, the woman who in many or most cases is suffering, and not the potential child who will almost certainly suffer by being born to a mother who cannot or doesn't want a child for whatever reason.

They are anti-choice. Or even anti-life. As someone mentioned earlier, these people have been known to kill people in the name of their "pro-life" campaigns!

Wigglesrock I grew up in ROI and totally agree that it is barbaric how women are made to travel to england for abortions. I was too young to vote in the 2002 referendum but was aghast that it didn't get passed :(

'Pro-choice although I am a bit at the thought of abortion right up to term.'

I was the same until being faced in a terrible situation where there was no right way out, either way involved pain and suffering to me and my DD :(

candleshoe Mon 16-May-11 13:27:21
"Pro choice definitely! And I would defend late abortion in the case of illness, severe disability, rape and other extreme circumstances too."

So NT foetuses are entitled to protection by law but disabled foetuses are not? It's ok to termitate a 'faulty' pregnancy but not a 'healthy' one?

Rape conviction rates are abysmal. How do you ensure that all women who have been raped are entitled to a late termination when the law practically never belives that she has been? And even for those women who do see their rapists punished by law, is she supposed to just hang about for months, getting more and more pregnant, while she waits for the case to be heard?

Who gets to make the call about illness? Can the woman have an abortion if she'll die otherwise, but if she'll just be left permanantly disabled by pregnancy and childbirth, then she'll just have to wear it?

It seems to me that all circumstances in which a woman seeks abortion are extreme. It should be up to that woman and that woman alone to decide whether she requires a termination or not.

I am pro choice, but with respect and a degree of understanding for those on the pro-life side who are consistent in their stance.

I have no time for people who consider themselves "pro life" because they oppose abortion, but who are blatantly anti-life when it comes to issues such as free / affordable health care, social welfare, war, and capital punishment.

I also have no time for the argument that a person can't be both a feminist and a person who opposes abortion. I think it's quite offensive to say that a person with those beliefs is fooling herself / himself.

Yes, there are some who would outlaw abortion as a way to reinforce the patriarchy and subjugate women in even the most intimate arena (our own bodies).

There are also people who quite genuinely believe that an embryo (and certainly a term foetus) is a human life, and is therefore worthy of the legal protections afforded to human lives in general. That is not an anti-feminist argument, it is simply an argument that doesn't mesh conveniently with the views of one particular strand of feminism.

There is a difference.

wigglesrock I mean that religious people have previously made the case that pro-choice is a compassionate and Christian stance. That barbaracy(?) that you talk about is something that a Christian person can say is unacceptable. That even though parts of your church (almost the entirety of the Catholic church) are against it, it is still possible to instead say access to safe legal abortion is a more godly situation than it being illegal and there is no contradiction in praying for such a situation. It seems sometimes that Christians have lost some of the small amount of compassion and concern for women that they used to hold.

I am pro-choice, although I think the choice should be exercised before the pregnancy begins if possible. I do not like the idea of taking no precautions and then having an abortion, although I think to be pro-choice you have to agree with abortion and not judge reasons so I find this hard. How can I reconcile this? It is something I struggle with as I have a few friends who have had abortions and some of them had what I would consider more valid reasons than others, which I dislike about myself for even thinking.

I am against the phrase "pro-life".

People who are pro-choice and not anti-life.

People who call themselves pro-life, on the other hand, are anti-choice.

DingDong - I'm fairly sure that the percentage of women who repeatedly terminate pregnancies because no contraception has been used is miniscule. No-one sane would choose this method of their own free will rather than taking the pill or condoms and soforth.

Which leaves women who have mental health issues and women who are being coerced into unprotected sex. I'd say terminations upon request for such women is completely reasonable.

DingDongMerrilyOutOfSeason Mon 16-May-11 15:34:26
"I think the choice should be exercised before the pregnancy begins if possible...I have a few friends who have had abortions and some of them had what I would consider more valid reasons than others.."

This is basically amounts to punishing women for thoughtlessness or poor choices by forcing them to gestate and give birth to a child against their will. Seems pretty disproportionate to me.

I know have quoted selectively, DingDong - I know that you have already acknowledged some of this issue!

Sorry, I didn't mean people who did it regularly, I meant responsible, educated adults who just didn't bother sorting contraception or using it properly. Abortion is a backup, it is not ideal but I don't think it is seen by everyone as a last resort, I know some people who would admit that they are aware it is there if needed, even in the case of 'getting carried away' or such reasons. Even as a one off, I find it hard to justify. (Not if contraception failed, just when it wasn't considered properly in the first place by people who really should know better)

I thought that to be pro-choice, you had to not judge anyone's reasons, even the reasons of a miniscule percentage of people.

I am pro life and a feminist

suchprospects think we're just rubbing each other the wrong way. My original comment was meant in a light hearted way, obviously the wrong place, but thank you for explaining my church to me. Away back to bottle / breastfeeding section, slightly less patronising.

Daisy I know, this is what I am trying to work out in my head. I do consider a foetus a baby at some point, although I can't decide exactly when, and find it hard to think of someone creating a potential life and then ending it because they couldn't be arsed with being prepared. But I also know that making them have a baby would be ridiculous.
Am a rubbish feminist

I'm Pro-choice, for anyone, for any reason, at any time.

It's not for me to decide the rights and wrongs of someone elses choice.

I hate when people say, 'I'm pro choice but only if........', because what they means, you can only make a choice if it agrees with them.

I support anyone's choice, whatever that choice is (which icludes keeping the baby, or having it adopted)

DingDong Mon 16-May-11 15:51:51
"I thought that to be pro-choice, you had to not judge anyone's reasons, even the reasons of a miniscule percentage of people."

We all see most things through the prism of our own experience and politics. We all judge.

It's whether you act on those judgements or wish legislation to reflect those judgements that is pertinant.

Defending a woman's right to not use contraception and then terminate any subsequent possible pregnancy is not the same as saying you personally think it's a good thing or something you would do yourself.

DingDong, you're the best kind of Feminist. One who properly engages and grapples with very difficult and emotive issues rather than spouting an unthinking kneejerk response.

That's the thing, I could not vocally defend a woman's right to not use contraception and then terminate any subsequent possible pregnancy because I think it is irresponsible and unnecessary.

I am clearly not pro-choice, am I? I really want to be, but I am so bloody judgemental. I would not act differently towards someone because they had a termination, for whatever reason, but if asked I would probably tell them my opinion (above) which makes me not pro-choice and not pro-life. What am I?

Thanks Daisy I find myself struggling with stuff like this all the time. Maybe I think too deeply about stuff, especially when it doesn't directly effect me at all. I just feel like I want to have an opinion rather than always arguing both sides and never knowing where I really stand.