transexualism

[intransition]

OK I am quite prepared to be shot down in flames but would prefer some reasoned debate

I am transgender ie a genetic male who has always felt more comfortable in a female role. I have always dressed as such whenever possible and when presenting as such felt completely comfortable. i have been almost asexual for most of my life but as a female enjoy the attentions of men and their response to me

I live and work as female and am accepted as such - i know all about the law regarding discrimination etc

However some of the strongest criticism has been from women who regard themselves as feminists. It has to be added that I have had enormous support from other girls also and some tremendous and enduring friendships

I am aware of the concepts of gender as a social construct i.e i wasnt socialised as a female and didnt have those experiences as a litlle girl , teenager etc
biologically i dont have a menstrual cycle , cant concieve or give birth etc etc etc but I can function in society in my role . Am I a sister ? an abhorrence? deluded? Do i deserve support or derision?

Well being a woman intransition, you'll know that women don'T have to do very much at all to be labelled insane.
It wasn'T so very long ago that a husband could have his wife sent to the asylum for not sucking his dick doing the dishes properly. Lobotomies? Yep those were for women like me who said STRANGE and WEIRD things about putting women first
And not much has changed

The doctors who carried out lobotomies on women said it made them "very good housekeepers" lol

and we all know the derivation of the word hysteria

from lies about women you mean, intransition?

From the Greek 'hystera' meaning uterus

ok ok im not going to be a 'woman' am I . At best I'm going to be someone society at large regards as having ambiguous gender but as gender doesnt really exist per se , its societal , then i'm just going to be me .Anybody want to suppress my ' right ' to be me then

Yes I know that thank you, but the word hysteria is derived from that because it was thought that women behaving in an out of order fashion were doing so because their uteruses were either wandering around their bodies or not functioning properly. In other words, there was a totally mythical medical condition created in order to put down the mental faculties of women, and with which to label them in order to discredit their views.

I can't work out if you are trying to criticse Sakura by using this incredibly insulting word, or if you were just pointing out the origin of the word for some reason.

oh and people are very defensive here , i'm not calling anybody hysterical , rather its an illustration of how women were controlled by creating a condition of the mind that the male medical fraternity concluded was related to having a uterus. The treatment was interesting as well - in the 19th century it was massaging of the patient's genitalia by the physician or the induction of orgasm by other means

Ditto what sakura said.

All of it.

i wa SUPPORTING Sakura by giving another example of the excuses men used to undermine 'incovenient ' women , no offence intended , my apologies for not being more explicit

There we have it though - in a nutshell.

M to F trans may be called women on paper. They do not have uteruses though, and never have. They therefore cannot display hysteria. Ergo they cannot be women because everyone knows women are hysterical.

And I mean that seriously (in terms of patriarchy's fucked up thinking about women).

The thing is, I don't see transexuals as a threat in any way. I don't think it's particularly likely that MtoF transpeople are going to get into women's prisons and start raping women. Has this happened? Please tell me if I'm wrong. Rather I think that a lot of the preconceptions that make people identify as a woman, when they are biologically male, is probably a bit fucked up, but transpeople get all the shit that we get for being women, plus an extra helping of shit for being trans.

Transpeople get shit - including attacks and murders - for being trans. Which is not imo a particularly pandering position.

And passing is a different discussion. Some transwomen do want to live in deep stealth. Others wish to be identified as specifically trans.

Transpeople are often beaten up, verbally abused or otherwise "punished" for being trans. I can't remember a single time I have met a transperson and SOMEONE hasn't commented on their oddness/appearance/voice/manner etc, either at the time or afterwards, and usually in a negative manner.

I think that there are objectionable sides to the trans movement - basically the part that demands we all shove over and make room for discussion of trans issues which are actually not always the same as feminist issues.

I am very supportive of transpeople's rights, just as I am supportive of e.g. gay rights, and have the capacity to get OUTRAGED at mistreatment of those groups based on prejudice just as I get outraged at women being mistreated for being women. But gay rights, trans rights and women's rights, although they may overlap in some areas, are not the same and it's wrong if trans groups think that they have the right to force feminist groups to discuss e.g. trans issues. It may be a worthwhile discussion but it's not the discussion that that group want to have.

I also note that the OP is still capable of mansplaining about historical maltreatment of women by doctors :o

mansplaining? its a pretty weird neoligism . Man explaining or man complaining?

I was joking - it's a word that was coined to describe what happens when a man assumes he's the most knowledgeable person in the room and starts to explain to women things they know perfectly well already.

Oh shit , biology runs deeper than i thought then. Mind you in this room I would assume I'm in the diametrically opposed position

psychoveggie, a man who thinks he's a woman doesn't even have to have his penis removed to get his M scrapped and changed to an F on his birth certificate.

I seriously didn't know that, I find that rather disturbing.

ALL females are XX. Every other person are variations of XY. IF a Y chromozome is present that person is no longer female.

I'm not sure I agree with that. For example someone with androgen insensitivity may be chromosomally male but outwardly physically (and culturally conditioned) female. Pretty harsh to deny them their right to call themselves female?

Also, is it not true that most transexuals experience gender dysphoria from childhood? Why in that instance should we deny a male-female transexual to identify as female?

If the goal is for gender to longer define anyone then transexuals should not be the focus, but society as a whole. Whilst society still defines gender in the way it does it is understandable that transexual people will go along with that.

"Whilst society still defines gender in the way it does it is understandable that transexual people will go along with that"

Absolutely, can't disagree with that, transexual people are as bombarded with gender definitions as everyone else. What I find quite shocking, is that many transexuals have to "camp it up", wear more feminine clothes than they want to, weare make up etc. to "prove" that they believe they are women, as though being a woman consists of wearing make up and pretty clothes. I have a feeling that if society didn't insist quite as firmly on gender roles, not so many people would want to change sex to begin with because they wouldn't need to be confused or uncomfortable about their gender roles - they would be allowed to be themselves.

I agree with HerBeX about ' camping it up ' as a potential problem, I dnt think im guilty of it , God I hope not . One interesting aspect of that is the oft quoted theory that transexuals are like pre or pubescent girls trying out make up and clothes and making their mistakes just later in life. But thats rather sad as its all horribly conformist yet understandable in this society