Passport applications and nationality

[ExpectoPatronum]

Can anyone explain this to me? I'm prepared to accept a logical legal argument here, before I decide it's yet another example of patriarchal idiocy.

I'm in the process of applying for passports for my DC.

We live in the UK, and the DC were all born here, but DH has Dutch nationality.

The notes for the passport application says that if children are born overseas, then you have to present proof of the father's British nationality, in order to secure them a British passport.

I do realise this is a moot point, seeing as our DC were born here and not in the Netherlands, but here's the thing:

Does this mean that a child born overseas to a British mother and foreign father can't have a British passport

but

A child born overseas to a foreign mother and British father can have one?

And if so, why?

Surely it should be enough for one parent to be British, irrespective of which one.

(And, to be facetious, isn't it easier to 'fake' a British father than to 'fake' a British mother?)

I thought children can take either parents nationality regardless of where they were born.

Before the Naty laws were changed a few years ago, British born unmarried fathers of children born to non-British women couldn't pass on their British nationality at all. (one of very few anti-patriarchal laws around) because of course, your mother can prove she gave birth to you, but without lengthy and costly DNA faffery, a father cannot prove its his sperm.

British mothers have always (well, for many various Nationality acts) been able to pass c/ship on. For many years there was even a retrospective law whereby Brit born mothers to children born abroad could apply for c/ship for their children even up to them becoming adults. Now in most simple cases it's automatically passed on.

So the law is actually as you state, only one parent needs to be British born. (I used to work in the nationality office, and am an unmarried Brit born mother of a furrin born child myself!) I didn't have to provide any info at all about dp.

My children were born overseas to an English mother (me) and non English father. No problem at all getting them british passports, they don't even want to see their father's documents.

I've just gone back to check in the notes, and the bit I was looking at actually refers to people born outside the UK before 1 January 1983 , so not applicable to the current generation of children.

However, it does specifically say (for people born before 1983) this : 'Note: you cannot claim British nationality through your mother'.

Which does still strike me as very odd.

I have to say I thought that was the case EP. I am sure that there used to be immigration laws that meant you could only claim nationality through your father. And that note seems to confirm it (as I had Aussie friends who couldn't claim British nationality because it was "only" their mother that was British). Not sure when the laws changed but I am sure it was later than 1983 - but that might be some arbitary cut off date they chose when they changed the law.

Yes, that was before the BNA 1981 act.

Then it changed, the new law became valid on 1/1/83 (although is called the BNA 81) and under sec 3 of the new (then) act, Brit born mothers could retrospectively have their children registered (ie granted as a right, rather than naturalisation which is, and always has been discretionary) There were also other numerous bits of the act regarding minors born abroad to British mothers. Under BNA81 though, children born out of wedlock to Brit dads still could not have his citizenship. That's now been changed as well.

Really interesting too, that the change in the law isn't applied retrospectively, i.e. the situation is different for people born after 1983, but people born before are still considered under the old law.

SGM, could you explain why "nationality laws are inherently misogynistic"? On face value, that makes no sense to me

Are you suggesting than anything that benefits the nation is misogynistic?

... and nations are inherently mysogynistic then? Can the patriarchy only be removed by the elimination of countries?

"... and nations are inherently mysogynistic then? Can the patriarchy only be removed by the elimination of countries?"

That same old lie: dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

Nation = Fatherland

It's pretty clear...

To return to the OP, I was interested to note that when we went to register our DD (who was born in Spain) as a British citizen the whole thing would have been much easier if we had been unmarried - in which case we would have only had to present DW's proof of nationality. As it was my parents had lost my long form birth certificate, so we had to get that first before they would process DD's claim.

Crikey, I'm not sure I'm at that level of feminism yet

I think (IIRC) we've had this conversation before, MrIC, but you do know that if either you or your wife were British born there was no need for her to make a claim to registration? It's just a Foreign Office money spinner?

I think it certainly was the case when we came here and since born before 1983 so the law change didn't apply. Although we got ancestral citizenship through my paternal grandfather, I remember the rule about it having to be from your paternal side and getting rather indignant at the time.