Academic attainment and feminism?

[suwoo]

I have wanted to start this thread all day but have been scared that it is stupid or I will be flamed. I want to ask if people feel there is a correlation between academic attainment and feminist principles. Is that a valid question?
I had no idea that I was a feminist. I knew I had these thoughts and principles but didn't know what they were or the significance of them until we did feminist literary theory this semester- it was like an epiphany and my whole world made sense

Had I not gone to uni at the grand old age of 35, maybe I would never had these revelations.

What do you think? Those of you that identify as a feminist, what level of education do you have?

Blimey Dittany that's shocking! If you don't mind me asking did you do your degree a long time ago?

I can't imagine going a politics degree and not doing any feminism, we even touched on feminist international relations! Maybe it was just the slightly repetitive nature of my particular course tho. I swear for most units it went one week liberalism, one week conservativism/realism, one week marxism, one week feminism, one week environmentalism.

That is really sucky, hopefully the late 80s/early 90s was just a bit of weird neo-liberal blip and they've all (unis) gone back to their senses!

That's funny, when I did my sociology A' level back in the 1980s we did lots of feminist theory in the section on women but the teachers never actually used the terms feminist/feminism. Maybe they thought it would have put us off (it wouldn't!) but it was weird.

I think it depends where you are. When I did my degree a few years ago, we were introduced to precisely two examples of feminist readings (re. Shakespeare), and to the Vindication. No feminist theory at all. In fact, if you so chose, you could avoid reading anything published in the last 100 years. It particularly annoys me that we spent two weeks - which was a quarter of the total module - writing about a certain anonymous (presumed male) poet who'd almost certainly been read by virtually no-one during his (her?!) lifetime, but completely women writers who were much more well-known ... because they weren't part of the canon, you understand.

We did absolutely no feminism on my course (philosophy and psychology) in the late 80s. Very traditional courses, all dead white European men. I don't think it's changed much. you can still study those subjects without any exposure to feminism if you go to the more traditional universities. The feminist activity seems to take place at postgrad and academic level, not at undergrad level.

Bleeding eck MrsClown, that's like telling a black person they have to be university educated to understand racism.

Interesting question. Before I went to uni (I went as a mature student) I thought and acted as a feminist, and assumed that most sane people thought the same about sexism as they did racism. I think I would describe it as a sort of feminist 'instinct'.
I went to uni as a mature student. I remember the day I found out that most of the people on my course didn't identify as feminist, or even thought 'it had gone to far' .
The more time I have spent in education, the more I have found that I explore 'feminism'. I honestly can't say how much more core beliefs have changed. But, I can articulate myself better, recognise things for what they are more, and because of this feel more confident and able to confront anti-feminism.
I think I remember that there are some charts at the back of 'Reclaiming the F Word' which ask about feminists levels of educations and their views of academic feminism. I can dig out my copy if needed.

I don't think it's related to education at all. I suppose if you have a very very low IQ and your day is about getting food and you don't really think about anything much then may be you would be less conscious of unfairness around you but aside from that I can't see why it makes a difference.However to use particular words like feminism rather than just agree with concepts (not fair the boys do X and the girls in the family can't) you need to read a bit.

I don?t think that level of education when considered on it?s own is any indication of whether a person is likely to be a feminist. I do think level of intelligence is a far greater indicator. I don?t think it is necessarily of the type measured in standard intelligence tests either. I think influences within the family and community when growing up must also play a part.

I think some of the theory can seem abstract and requires a certain level of intelligence to understand in a way that can be applied to real life. I think it?s probably likely that someone who has studied at degree level is also more likely to have or have gained the capacity to think critically, to understand a certain amount of abstraction and the ability to see how these theories actually play out in society.

I grew up in a very political home, where meal times weren?t just for eating! Both parents socialist, father a Marxist and mother a feminist. Only my father had a degree. I can vaguely remember feeling different to my peers from a very early age but at the time just put it down to the fact that I didn?t conform to stereotypical girly behaviour or likes and dislikes. I threw the doll out the pram and filled in with rubble

I am a social worker and I have studied some courses at L3 with the OU, some of it covering feminist theory but mainly in relation to family dynamics and I am not as well read as I could be.

Xenia, the concept of IQ is highly suspect. Educational achievement is not genetic, it's all down to your background. There are slight variances between children, but the innate differences are way overplayed. THis is done, of course, so that in our classist system, those who achieve can pat themelves on the back for having good genes as opposed to admitting they got where they did through their parent's educational background, pure luck, or money. The IQ concept stops people from questioning why some kids do better than others.

I fondly remember the second year of my psychology degree way back in the 80s. We spend a whole year going through as many of the available IQ tests as possible then critiquing them from a cultural/feminist/sociological perspective. Apart from being culturally biased, they are massively gender biased as well.

I like to tell people I have an IQ off the scale as that is what I scored using Ravens Matricies, a test that measures the ability to virtually manipulate objects in 3 dimensional space.

I've not got the time, or inclination, to mount a defence of Judith Butler's work, nor claim it as feminist, but in my own experience, Butler isn't taught as a feminist or as representative of feminism. She's a queer theorist, and is taught as such.

In my experience too, Victor - I've read Butler (in English Literature degrees) as a "Queer Theorist" - and sometimes (I suspect this is where it gets murkily close to/associated with/mistaken for Feminism) as a "Gender Theorist".

I can't understand a single one of her books, mind :)

Maybe in the UK Sakura, but I think in countries with less of an entrenched class system innate intelligence can play a much bigger role than background. Thinking of my many cousins in Italy there are several who came from average working class homes who did very well at school and now have successful careers and a few of the posher ones who barely scraped their way through the maturita' (baccalaureate).

Sorry, that's actually got nothing to do with feminism

I agree with all the people saying that IQ tests are a pretty rubbish way of testing intelligence though

I'm glad I'm not the only one, MrsClown! I hardly ever participate in threads as I'm worried about coming across as fick.

I haven't been to university, and dropped out of school at 16 because finally I didn't have to take the bullying anymore. (I started doing A Levels, but decided to leave a couple of months in). I think I could and would have gone on to uni if things were different; I got really good grades at GCSE.

I never identified as a feminist (not anti-feminist, just hadn't really thought about it) until about a year ago when I was undergoing councelling for PTSD caused by rape and birth trauma.

I found this topic by accident and suddenly it was like everything that had happened to me made sense. I was so ill and was suicidal, but you made me realise that what had happened wasn't my fault. Honestly, you all helped me to get better without even realising it. All of you are the reasons why I am a feminist! [vom]

After that, I threw myself into reading and reading about feminism, and I attended RTN and MWR. I've tried to change/challenge things in my own life, and am trying to bring up my daughter as confident and as equipped as possible to handle the shit that will inevitably be thrown at her.

So to answer your question ....no, education has not encouraged me to be a feminist. My life experiences have lead me to this point.

[sorry about the life story emoticon]

(My point was just that plenty of people in all classes don't stand for it if girls are treated differently from boys - there are huge traditions of strong women in working class families in the UK and plenty these days without a man in sight where women succeed and don't put up with unfairness. I don't think you need to know particular words to ssee unfairness based on gender lines. On IQ all I meant was if you've a very low intelligence and presumably even those who don't go in for IQ testing as working think some people have conditions which mean their IQ is very low indeed, then those people may be unable to see if things are unfair or not but not otherwise.)

I agree cokefloat, becoming a mother has definitely 'consolidated' my identification with feminism, perhaps because it is more close to the bone?

I was at a "redbrick" uni in the late 80s/early 90s doing English Lit and Theatre Studies.

The former had a "Women Writers" module which was brill, and although it focused on the literary texts themselves (including very modern ones), we were encouraged to read about feminist theory and analyse the texts accordingly.

Fabulously, the Th St course had a "Feminist Theatre" module and again, the plays and the "object of the gaze" etc. when applied to theatre were the focus but again, we were encouraged to read feminist theorists and we discussed feminist analysis loads. I loved it!

Interestingly, it was the only module that didn't require a typical fast-writing to time/ memory test exam. The tutor set us a take-home paper of three essays to be written over three days using as much supporting research as we had time for.

I have a BA.

MrsClown nobody deserves to be patronised like that. And like many others, I don't think higher education is necessary to be a feminist, although it's more likely you would come across the more erudite types of analysis in that context. But there are plenty of incredibly bright women who learn through observation, the influence of other people and getting involved with boards like this, feminist groups etc. No degree necessary.

Up I'm so glad feminism is helping you recover. Good for you!