Academic attainment and feminism?

[suwoo]

I have wanted to start this thread all day but have been scared that it is stupid or I will be flamed. I want to ask if people feel there is a correlation between academic attainment and feminist principles. Is that a valid question?
I had no idea that I was a feminist. I knew I had these thoughts and principles but didn't know what they were or the significance of them until we did feminist literary theory this semester- it was like an epiphany and my whole world made sense

Had I not gone to uni at the grand old age of 35, maybe I would never had these revelations.

What do you think? Those of you that identify as a feminist, what level of education do you have?

I think it's a valid question suwoo. No idea what the answer is tho!

Personally, I've always felt like feminist and called my self one since I first heard the word (so probably age 8/9ish?).
I have a degree and am about to start an MA. I've always been interested in sociology so I guess I know the "academic" bits of feminism as a result of my education but I think even without my education i'd always be a "gut feeling" sort of feminist as I do remember getting upset about feministy things since I was a child (e.g. my gran telling me not to get my clothes dirty but letting my brother do fun stuff like chop wood or whatever)

I think that if you are used to or have learnt to apply some form of analysis to what you are reading/watching or learning that you are likely to be more politically aware and feminism is political. However from my perspective it was getting more of a social conscience that helped introduce me to feminism and I'm not sure that I got that from university.

However an education always helps in applying theory to real-life situations and that can only help with feminism. Empathy, understanding and courage also helps!

I have 2 separate and unrelated degrees, in answer to your question.

Thanks both. Veeeeery in-ter-est-ing.

I think academia in the UK is fairly misogynistic, so if you do a degree or get into that area through work, you may well find you come up against more obvious sexism than in other lines of work/training. I notice that a lot of people on MN (and in RL) will say they just don't really feel as if there is a lot of sexism in their day-to-day lives, but I think in a lot of academic contexts you'd struggle not to notice the sexism.

I don't think you have to be highly educated to be a good feminist, though, or that highly educated people necessarily become feminists - wasn't there a thread about pole dancing at Cambridge University which could demonstrate that one?!

I think, retrospectively, I've probably always been a feminist in the sense that I never had any time for anyone telling me I couldn't/shouldn't do something because it was a 'boy' thing or 'unladylike'.

I suppose the connection to academia would be that, in my view, being a feminist from a young age is often a sign of an independent thinker. A girl who doesn't just unquestioningly accept the societal impositions of gender based play, careers, clothes, marketing etc. but instead reasons things out for herself. That's also a useful personality trait to have in education and academia.

I have a doctorate in science.

Hmm, clearly my education hasn't taught me to read the bloody question!

Sorry, should have said: I do identify as a feminist (trying to do so a bit more vocally atm), and I have a Masters degree and am writing up my PhD.

It's good to hear how your work is going suwoo, I remember you posting about it before.

I did my degree in a female-dominated profession

make of that what you will

I have always had feminist leanings, but didn't start to organise or voice them until I had been studying at the University of Life for rather a long time, it's been an experience/confidence thing for me as opposed to a strictly academic one

I self-identified as a feminist at 14, long before I did lots of degrees. I have done three so far, though, and am finishing a fourth (s-l-o-w-ly) so maybe the critical thinking idea posited by HandDived might be a winner?

I think academia is v. v. sexist (my area dominated by women, but guess who the big earning professors at the top are? Ohyes) and that might provoke more feminism. What's made me more "strident" in my feminism (to quite a male friend/acquaintance - which made me ) recently is getting pregnant and having a kid. In my 20s I could do whatever I liked, and be treated like a man. Suddenly wanting to do something that only women do made me realise that there's a corner of society for 'women things' and it's a place where the money, rules, and sexual politics haven't changed since the dark ages. Realising how much having kids would hurt my career, and boost my husband's career - that has made me a louder, more determined feminist than any degree!

I think you will find that in London, don't know about other places a lot of women become religiously active within certain faiths and start donning the attired that faith in univ. I suppose the fact they feel it is a liberation is irrelevant to this thread.

sorry nailak - "donning the attired that faith in univ"?

I think I've been a feminist all my life tbh, and if anything my time as a student was when I ignored feminism the most as I was very involved in other things. I have a degree but would never be "an academic" as I couldn't wait to leave uni.

Also I'm not sure you'll get a very representative answer on here as MNers v likely to have degrees I remember reading.

Stupid phone I meant the attire of the faith

I agree that academia itself is very, very misogynistic and that one doesn't't need to be well educated to be a good feminist. Feminism is a political movement and is about right and wrong and one doesn't need a degree to be able to differentiate between the two.

However...

Discussions on this and other forums can sometimes feel very academic and I can see that it may give the impression that it is necessary to be 'educated' to take part.

I have a professional degree.

And I also agree with blackcurrants although I have always identified as a feminist and seen the movement as continuing to be necessary, I naively didn't feel like it really applied to me as I was obviously being treated as an equally . Since becoming a mother it has become more clear that I'm not an equal in our society and that women are all (even the single carreer girls) relegated to a sub-class even today.

It's just more difficult to see it when you feel a part of it, IYKWIM?

In my head I tend to make the distinction though between an individual being well educated (ie. having been taught to think analytically and question things) and think that this is probably more likely to make them a feminist/more politically engaged then they would be otherwise and academia (as in lecturers and people who work in that kind of environment) which can be very stuffy and conservative

Nailak I think I get what you mean, I think university is a time where lots of people a) want to rebel from their parents and b) want to find a group to identify with so I can totally get that if you had quite liberal parents or were the only Muslim/Sikh whatever family in your small town you might suddenly get a big interest in religion at uni - I think it's a completely normal stage to go through and possibly quite liberating getting to try out a new side of your self that you'd never tried before

Me too, berryjuice. I spent a long time just assuming that everyone normal felt the same way I did about women and men being equal, and objected to the remnants of sexism - university really made me realize that this wasn't so!

Interesting question. I don't think there is a correlation necessarily. There are plenty of feminists who haven't arrived at that position through an academic route but because of what there own experiences have taught them.

I think, however, that if you take an academic route into a male dominated world then you might inevitably become more aware of how differently men and women are treated. Doesn't follow that it would make you more feminist, though, you might just become more like the men who you see getting on so well because of how they conduct themselves.

Probably, a topic for another thread but Dittany why do you think academic feminists are anti-feminist? You mention JB in your post but I'm not following ....

*their

Hmm, I think I've always self identified as a feminist, but then I have the luxury of coming from what is apparantly officially the best place in the world to be a girl (NZ).

As you do, I sort of quietened down in my old age, only to rediscover by inner strident feminist when doing an MSc in a very male dominated area. My classmates made every excuse under the sun for my high grades and were vocally outraged (or at least some of them were) when I walked off with all the academic prizes. I heard every excuse under the sun from favouritism, to the lecturer fancied me to I slept my way to the good grades, to "political corectness".... (I could go on). At no point did they consider the obvious answer i.e. that I worked harder than them and that I'm a damn sight brighter than the lot of them.

I now work in academia (though I'm not an academic) and still I have to deal with (usually) men who can't take anything I say seriously until it comes out of a man's mouth.

"I tend to make the distinction though between an individual being well educated (ie. having been taught to think analytically and question things) and think that this is probably more likely to make them a feminist/more politically engaged then they would be otherwise and academia (as in lecturers and people who work in that kind of environment) which can be very stuffy and conservative"

100% agree with this, bucaneve. My parents brought me up to question what I was told, and not to follow authority blindly or believe that someone else always knows better. I'm sure being analytical helped me academically, and it also is pretty essential to being a feminist (especially when faced with the obligatory "oh stop worrying about nothing you silly woman" type comments).

I am part of a feminist network and almost everyone in it has been to uni, espcially the under 30s.

I wasn't a feminist until I went to uni. I studied it as part of one of my courses and then when a lot of bad stuff happened to me I realised that feminism explained it. If I had never been formally taught some of the concepts I dont think I would ever have got into it the way I have. But, I also probably wouldn't have got so passionate if I had only ever been taught it and had never experienced first hand some of the things femininsts get so angry about (violence, discrimination in employment, unequal pay, limited career choices, domestic inequality, discrimination against single mothers etc).

I think that most feminists, unless they have been brought up to be feminists, will fall into one of these 2 categories.

slug that is crap. Good on you for coming through it.

Also I think you need quite a high level of literacy to be able to read a lot of feminist texts. Some are very heavy going. I wish their were more publishes that aimed at a less-well educated readership. The terminology and jargon can be intimidating and you shouldn't need a degree or a dictionary beside you to be able to access it.

Do publishers think there is no such demand for this?

I was a feminist before I was an academic, but the two are closely related for me. Most of my feminist friends are also my colleagues. It's where I meet feminsts and discuss issues.

Maybe my experience of academia is different from most on this thread as I work in explicitly feminist research areas, and usually with people who are very definitely feminist - NOT to be a feminist in my research area is seen as odd. There is the odd man around, but they tend to be very pro-feminist.

Overall the academic system and hierarchies are very sexist, I have many grumbles about that, but still I find there is lots of space for feminism and I love that.

I'm glad you have all enaged with my question and that is was relevant. Phew.

I have just written two femist literary theory essays and yes the texts are extremely wordy and need a lot of unpacking. One paragraph in Judith Butler's 'Gender Trouble' amused me because I understood the meaning of every word individually but put together into a paragraph and I was foxed . Didn't she win an award for her books being impossible to read?