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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

a teenager forced to pay compensation to her school after she refused to cheer for the man who raped her

128 replies

Leverkusen · 04/05/2011 16:20

I don't often post here, but I read this article today and was so appalled

link here

'A teenage girl who was dropped from her high school's cheerleading squad after refusing to chant the name of a basketball player who had sexually assaulted her must pay compensation of $45,000 (£27,300) after losing a legal challenge against the decision.'

OP posts:
DooinMeCleanin · 05/05/2011 23:47

The point is the assailant should not have been on the team or even in the school. His needs were placed above the female victims.

Rohanda · 05/05/2011 23:49

hmm dittany. Let's say I will bow out here and lets not pursue it hereafter? Seems the good thing to do. Just say ok?

dittany · 05/05/2011 23:53

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dittany · 05/05/2011 23:56

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AyeRobot · 05/05/2011 23:57

Just going to interrupt to go back to what StillSquiffy said about the timeline. I admit that I missed that at first. None of this would have happened if the grand jury hadn't thrown out the case in the first place. Whilst the story becomes interesting because of the response of the school and the unique legal avenue the girl has taken, the girl's problems started because she was assaulted (as later proven in law) and raped (charges were dropped for the lesser charge of assault) and not believed. So, it's the same old, same old.

Rohanda · 05/05/2011 23:58

yes I did, but I ama still riled by your allegations tbh. I am going to bed but I HATE fellow femists to argue like this, and be personal about it, which I contrubuted to, I admit. PM me if you think it worthwhile. I will respond to you. Too angry and tired to sqabble with you here, and it does shift the debate away from the important bit.

anastaisia · 06/05/2011 00:03

As someone said earlier - I agree that in some ways this is a victory even though they've lost. They've got people talking about it, they've highlighted the issue and hopefully there will be an added pressure to do something about it. Though I imagine that won't be a quick or easy process because it's obvious these things NEVER are :( - but it's one more piece of evidence that these issues exist.

It seems very brave of the young woman to take it that far. It's another one of the things that if someone started a pledgebank type collection for her that I'd be very tempted to pay into.

AyeRobot · 06/05/2011 00:07

Od course, I should have said: None of this would have happened if 4 men/boys had not locked her in a room and assaulted and raped her.

dittany · 06/05/2011 00:09

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rohanda · 06/05/2011 00:12

wasabout to switch off. I am not a troller, and some things I said about you I withdraw happliy. Just angry at the time. Sleep well when you do.

hogsback · 06/05/2011 00:28

Lets' stick to the main point - a school which was well aware of a convicted sexual assault by one of its basket ball players, on one of its cheerleaders, decided that the solution to that was to continue to allow the basketball player to represent the school, and to require his victim to cheer for him. When she refused, she was dismissed from the cheerleading squad. The school didn't want a recalcitrant victimised cheerleader to represent them, but they had no problem being represented by a convicted sex offender.

This.

hogsback · 06/05/2011 00:29

Gah. Why didn't italics work?

noncuro · 06/05/2011 00:42

This is a really shocking decision, especially that the Supreme Court hasn't even heard the case, just swept it aside. I am absolutely amazed Bolton wasn't expelled. What also confuses me about this is that the USA is very proud of its First Amendment rights and very fierce about freedom of speech. So, how can a young girl be allowed to basically contract out of constitutional rights by being on a cheerleading squad? Surely she deserves more protection than that? What other rights does she contract out of by being on the squad?

AyeRobot · 06/05/2011 00:45

The convicted bit isn't true, hogsback. Well, it is now, but he wasn't convicted at the time of the cheerleading incident. He returned to the school in between the end of the first trial and the start of the second and that's when the game happened.

Too tired now to go hunting now, but tomorrow I'll read back over articles about it to see if the process for the second trial had started by the time the game happened.

sakura · 06/05/2011 07:14

"usual dingbats" HAHAHA! thanks sprogger I'd forgotten how funny that word was

"The horror show that is patriarchy" sums this incident up, dittany

confuddledDOTcom · 06/05/2011 11:43

Something said before reminds me of being told off for calling a certain person "my rapist" I can't call him that, apparently, because he wasn't convicted - like about 80% of rapists because if you knew them and wasn't beaten black and blue it's hard to prove - and only a court can decide that someone is indeed a rapist.

If I understand it properly you can plead guilty to a lesser charge in the US to avoid the trial and conviction of what you actually did. I know it's only TV but you see it on all the crime shows where both sets of lawyers are discussing what they're happy to accept, before they get to court.

Leverkusen, that's awful I hope you manage to get somewhere with it. If it's denominational you could try going to the denomination. The camp will not be excluded from child protection and everyone should be CRB'd, this is an incredibly dangerous attitude and however long ago it was it needs to be sorted out. It certainly isn't a Christian attitude and I'm disgusted that anyone who calls themselves a Christian could behave like that, far more disgusted at the leaders than the man even - I hate that I call myself a name that relates me to those people. Our church organises an annual camp that is extended out to other churches but they take child protection seriously, as much as I don't like the organiser (our old minister) I can't imagine he'd ever allow something like that to happen or should I say for them to get away with it. I know of an ex-Sunday School (not at our church, he was already ex by then) leader who it came out had been abusing children, some of whom were teenage by then members of the church and he was told to leave to protect them. The minister wasn't able to get involved in the case because it was before his time but he supported the families concerned.

InmaculadaConcepcion · 06/05/2011 14:19

Sorry to hear what happened to you, Confuddled. I hope you're okay.

You raise a crucial point and one which I think is at the heart of the debate upthread (IMO).

The prevailing attitude seems to be that a woman can't refer to someone as "her rapist" unless they were convicted of the crime.
Which I think is utter tosh and misogynistic to boot.

Let's look at it this way.

When someone's been mugged, we don't tend to say, "Oh, So'n'So claims they were mugged."
No, we say "So'n'So was mugged."
Whereas with rape - another violent crime (even without the bruises) the tendency is to immediately cast doubt on the victim's account. From the first moment. "She says he raped her".

And then, if nothing is proved either way in the criminal process (as it often isn't) the thinking seems to be that the rape is magicked away. It couldn't possibly have happened because the court said it didn't.

Let's get one thing clear, here. A prosecution team has to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty in order to secure a conviction.
If a conviction doesn't happen because the jury acquitted the accused, that means the jury believed there was "reasonable" doubt.

We also say "innocent until proven guilty" but with all the prejudice stacked against rape convictions, I don't buy a lot of these acquittals. To me, the "reasonable doubt", is actually "pre-programmed to doubt" and I have lost my faith in the court system when it comes to the supposed innocence of most men accused of rape. In another thread a poster gave an interesting account of being on a jury in a rape case. The other 11 members subscribed to all the rape myths they had ever heard and decided the accused was innocent. A fair trial? I don't think so.

And if the accused pleads to a lesser charge as part of a deal between legal teams? Do we assume the rape didn't happen, then? Well I don't. I assume the accused - the rapist - wanted to wriggle off the hook.

And if the case never came to court at all? OK, the rapist hasn't been called a rapist by dint of conviction in a court of law - but he hasn't been "proven" innocent either. He's a rapist who has so far got away with it.

Is "rapist" purely a legal term?? I don't believe so. It describes someone who has sexually coerced someone else.

So let's not get too dainty about applying the term, eh?
I believe dittany to be absolutely justified in calling Bolton a rapist. She is going against prevailing social attitudes and giving the victim the benefit of the doubt here, not the assailant.

As feminists, we are the last people who should be too pernickety about whether the oh-so-sympathetic-to-rape-victims-(NOT) court system agreed with the label, "rapist".

But if discomfort still remains with using the term "rapist" in this case, how about "sex attacker" then?

thefinerthingsinlife · 06/05/2011 14:28

Texas Cheerleader Who Was Assaulted Never Had A Chance

StewieGriffinsMom · 06/05/2011 14:31

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InmaculadaConcepcion · 06/05/2011 14:59

god, it just gets worse the more you read about it.

Worse and worse.

SueSylvesterforPM · 06/05/2011 15:04

As soon as I saw like 110 posts I thought somethings kicked off,

I wonder if Rohanda knows about the article? if she claims its bogus reporting

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 06/05/2011 15:17

I'd wonder if Rohanda would be happy to have been treated like this if her daughter (or herself) had been assaulted and raped?

confuddledDOTcom · 06/05/2011 22:15

It's just over 7 years ago, seems a different lifetime now. A bit like HS I decided to take it in my stride. I remember sat in the soft interview room with a plain clothed female PC and chatting with her then stopping and saying it felt weird that I wasn't a gibbering wreck. She told me that people react differently, it's only on TV it happens to every woman like that some do just treat it very matter of fact but that doesn't change the way they view me. She spoke to me after she had interviewed him and said that she was in her mid-30s and been a rape officer for a long time, he was 19 and she had never felt like she did sat opposite him with anyone else. She had no doubt from just sitting in the room with him that he had done it.

Unfortunately I had met up with him from the locals chat room, he asked me to sit in his car in the pub car park then drove off to a dark car park. I fought as long as I could without getting myself hurt, I moved away from him, losing my clothes each time I moved, I kept saying it wasn't happening but eventually I was naked and knew it was inevitable so stopped fighting because I didn't want to get hurt. So going against me was that I had chosen to meet him and I didn't have bruises, apparently they have to be 80% sure of a conviction to take a rape case and about 80% of rape cases aren't prosecuted. The one thing that has stayed with me is what would I do next time? Fight so that my body was a better "crime scene" or protect myself from being hurt further knowing that it's very difficult to bring a rape case anyway.

Personally I think only the victim has a right to label her experience as rape - I believe that about all experiences whether it's whether a woman feels she has "given birth" when she had a section, birth rape, rape, whatever, if I didn't go through her experiences I can't label them.

I agree with InmaculadaConcepcion, it just gets worse and worse.

InmaculadaConcepcion · 07/05/2011 09:45

Personally I think only the victim has a right to label her experience as rape

There is definitely something to be said for a victim "owning" her own experience.

But many victims are in denial about the fact that they were actually raped. Which can be regarded as an internalised form of victim-blaming.

A friend of mine was raped when she was about 17. She told me about her experience some time after - she didn't call it rape because she wasn't sure that's what it was. She was travelling with a supposedly trusted male friend of the family, staying in a twin bedroom with him. He got into her bed with her, ignored the fact that she clearly wasn't happy with the situation, and had sex with her.

She was upset and confused when she told me what had happened. I was the one who said "He raped you". I offered her the label (as well as instant belief in her story).
She looked relieved. Because by my spelling it out she had a lightbulb moment that she wasn't to blame for his actions.

I'm so sorry you had such an awful experience, Confuddled. I'm glad the police officer believed you straight away. And I'm sorry your rapist, like so many others, wasn't brought to justice.
Thanks for sharing your story. I pray there will never be a "next time" for you.

StewieGriffinsMom · 07/05/2011 09:51

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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