woman arrested for harming unborn child.

[StuckinTheMiddlewithYou]

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/15/woman-attempted-suicide-pregnant-accused

Could this ever happen here?

There is an offence of Child Destruction in UK which applies to the unborn. The man charged with the recent murder of Nikkita Grender was also charged with this because he also killed her unborn child. It applies only to acts which are intended to cause death (so doesn't cover eg smoking, drinking and drug use in pregnancy as they would typically be carried out for other reasons).

I think it can be applied to abortions carried out outside the provisions of the abortion act, and could apply here to the one off ingestion of rat poison with the intent of destroying life (hers and the child). But it's complicated as suicide isn't an offence, and because the mother in this case has mental health issues. So I doubt it would result in a murder charge in UK.

But this woman does appear to need help, so a charge (with a diminished responsibility mitigation) might be a means to secure for her the help she needs.

Thats a horrid story.

I am not really pro-abortion but I do think it is really unfair to say that having a medically managed abortion is just 'one step away' from overdosing on rat poison when pregnant.

To clarify my post above, he was also charged with child destruction because the act he is accused of also killed the child (he has not yet been tried).

dittany: I don't think it's as simple as that. If two women were stabbed in the abdomen, and both recovered, would you expect to see the same charge laid (probably GBH or similar) for one - not pregnant and the other - pregnant at time of attack but the unborn baby had been killed as a result?

This woman has clearly suffered enough having had a breakdown after the death of her daughter. She will probably live with feelings of guilt and remorse for the rest of her life.

The Americans are a bunch of right wing church going fruitcakes, well most seem to be. It isn't really surprising.

OTOH if there's one thing Americans hate it's having their country criticized, so if they would see how they're viewed for the barbaric practices that go on in their country then it might make the men running the show stop and think. Trying to show them that women are human definitely ain't going to work.

That child destruction act is chilling. What does it matter if there's a baby inside her if she's been killed anyway? It's because some other man's progeny has been killed as well isn't it making the crime MUCH worse.

I do agree a little bit sakura, there was an american woman on another thread that got arsey because someone dared to criticise a food she enjoyed as a child. Yeah well I like shepherds pie, I'm not gonna get arsey if someone else calls it the devils food though .

I don't really get the whole foetocide thing whilst abortion exists, that's the way the whole pro-life movement wants me to think I imagine, with the bent towards outawing abortion.

Handmaid's Tale here we come if this idea ever gathers traction. I like America, I imagine most people are moderate, however the whole religion and patriotism thing does seem to have a hold of the less nimble of mind.

It's worse than that.

The idea that this woman-hating fucking maniac is not just allowed to walk the streets but is elected to public office is really very frightening indeed.

horrible horrible story. I hope this woman gets the help she needs so desperately

sakura: why do you think the Child Destruction Act is chilling?

I could not open the OP's link .

SGB your link is actually really scary, A women could face death penalty if she has a micarage? please please please tell me that as usual I totally misunderstood the article!

I agree with SGM about stereptype, never adds anything to an argument.

Gorionine: I don;t think that screaming nutjob actually managed to get the law passed but he keeps trying. This is a man who hates women so much he shouldn't be free to walk the streets. He also proposed that rape victims should be legally renamed as rape accusers because calling them victims prejudiced the jury. It was only rape/domestic violenc/sexual assault that he wanted this new law to apply to ie only stuff that happened to women.

This is awful I feel for that woman

Thank you for the link SpringChickenGoldBrass, this man is an elected representative, therefore voted in to represent the views of the people. America is still a democratic country, isn't it?

I would assume that he has at least has some support, probably from white, middle class, right wing, pro life MEN.

I don't dislike Americans as individuals, I have several american friends and teach an american child for a few weeks every year. What I do dislike is the fact that American law and politics is overwhelmingly right wing and although meant to be secular is disproportionately headed up by quite radical christians.

Only in America could a pastor claim the support of others to burn the Quran. Only in America would you find young teenage girls bullying other women and making a villain out of any women who opts to have an abortion.

I eventually managed to see your link, StuckInTheMiddleWithYou. I find it distressing. That woman was desperate, she did something according to how she felt at that time (being abandoned by the father of her child and in a fragile state of mind). She needs serious help on so many levels.

SGM, countries should own their misogyny. The UK, Japan, the US, wherever. We have the right call it for what it is. People are happy saying Arab countries have barbaric practices, what's so different when it comes to the US.
Different countries have different cultural traits, otherwise ALL countries and cultures would be the same.
It's not AMerican bashing to point out that THAT particular culture has a huge RIght wing anti-woman religious lobby.
Violence against women is extremely high in the UK, you have a right, in that context, to say that British men are violent.
Pick any culture you like, the misogyny will manifest itself in the ways specific to that culture.
We're not talking about individuals, we're talking about cultural practices.

I struggle with this one. Regardless of the legality of abortion, I do feel that if someone stabbed me in the stomach whilst heavily pregnant, and I survived but the baby (and to me, with a wanted, viable feotus, it would be a baby) died, there would still have been effectively a murder. I would be distraught at the thought that the worst charge would be attempted murder towards me, not the actual killing of the baby. And of course, the act only applies from viability.

OTOH, the charging of this woman is so clearly wrongly. She was obviously in great mental distress. It is wrong to suggeset that she was obliged to live 'for the sake of' her future child, because it does imply we're just incubators. I don't know how you reconcile those two things, except that, as far as I'm aware, our Crown Prosectuion wouldn't charge in those types of circumstances. It's a very rarely used law. That doesn't address the underlying issue though.