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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

WWYD? Job interview issue.

43 replies

Unrulysun · 08/04/2011 22:38

I was asked about my childcare arrangements in a job interview yesterday.

I had mentioned that I was on maternity leave (when asked about my current role and the change to the new one if I were successful). One of the interviewers asked me a couple of questions which I felt were inappropriate about whether my childcare arrangements would be flexible enough :(

I won't find out if I was successful until next week. My thinking is to wait until then and, whatever the outcome, offer it as feedback.

WWYD?

OP posts:

dollius · 08/04/2011 23:01

This is very tricky. You could object during the interview to being asked about your childcare arrangements - which are none of their business and which they are not allowed to ask you about anyway - but you just wouldn't get the job. Andyou would be hard pushed to prove anything.

I have been asked about my childcare arrangements in all three job interviews I have gone to since I had children. I just smiled sweetly and said that, yes, of course, I had adequate childcare arrangements in place. Then seethed about it afterwards. A man would never be asked this question.

This is a good example of why people who say that "feminism has gone too far" are talking utter guff.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 09/04/2011 11:57

Aaargh this is so wrong. Could you airily reply "oh, my partner takes care of all that sort of thing"? :o

I agree though, that you'll have to wait and then feedback.

im22 · 09/04/2011 14:00

I don't understand why they were inappropriate to ask you about childcare. They are looking to employ you, and if they think your childcare is going to cause a problem with your ability to do your job then why shouldn't they ask? If your childcare was good enough not to hinder your ability to do the job and they didn't give you the job based only on the basis that you have a child then off course this would be unfair, but this is not what they have done (and I think you are right to get feedback afterwards to ensure this isn't the case). Employers have a right to know about something that will cause their employees to take time off work, why do you think childcare needs are immune to this? They will be paying you to do a job, YOUR choice to have a child doesn't trump their right to have you do the job they are paying you to do correctly

AyeRobot · 09/04/2011 14:03

im22, do you have children? And have you been asked about your childcare arrangements in an interview?

meditrina · 09/04/2011 14:09

It's to ask about any personal factors that are not relevant to the job. Domestic arrangements fall into this category.

They can however spell out the hours for the post, expected overtime and seasonal surges and any on call arrangements and ask if you will be able to meet them. This should be asked of all candidates, not just female ones.

David51 · 09/04/2011 14:38

Guidance for interviewers on the University of Exeter website states that "interviewers should...avoid questions about child-care arrangements, in particular when interviewing female candidates, as they may be interpreted as direct sex discrimination."

Are there any experts out there who can advise on the legal position?

im22 · 09/04/2011 15:04

AyeRobot, No I don't have children. I have been asked this in a job interview though so I would assume the next question would have been about childcare if I did have kids. I am male so I would like to point out that this means that, as is probably the case in the OP's position, the point of the question was not to be sexist, but whether or not childcare arrangements would have led to an inability to do my job.

As to meditrina's point, "It's to ask about any personal factors that are not relevant to the job. Domestic arrangements fall into this category", I would disagree. We do not know what the job the OP applied for is, I would imagine childcare arrangements are relevant, eg. if a job specification requires a person to work 7am to 7pm, Monday to Friday, why should that employer be forced to employ someone who has to do the school run and is therefore unable to meet the requirements of the job.

meditrina · 09/04/2011 15:09

im22: what I suggested in my post would specifically allow the employer to ask about presence at work 7-7 Mon-Fri. That is the sole point that is relevant.

What other commitments the candidate may or may not have, nor how they deal with them, is not relevant.

AliceWorld · 09/04/2011 15:23

im22 do you expect employers to ask, now do you have an alarm clock to wake you up in the morning, and do you know how to make food to bring with you at lunchtime, and do you know how to either get on a bus or drive, and do you have arrangements to make sure you can go to bed at a sensible time so you're not tired in the morning, and do you know how to wipe your own arse? All of these would impact on your ability to do your job, all of them have fuck all to do with your employer.

ilovecrisps · 09/04/2011 15:27

PMSL at feedback saying we didn't give you the job because you had a child. iam22 are you by any chance 22?

HHLimbo · 09/04/2011 15:36

im22 - sorry but your opinions do not match those of the law.

frakyouveryverymuch · 09/04/2011 15:45

Flowery says it's legal as long as all candidates (so both sexes) are asked IIRC and she's a proper expert.

So unless there's evidence a man wouldn't be asked it's not necessarily discriminatory from a sexist POV (although it's very borderline). It could be construed as discriminatory against people with children, especially if they subsequently employed a childfree candidate.

If the role requires significant flexibility then I think they can ask about 'other commitments'.

thefinerthingsinlife · 09/04/2011 18:35

My DH is an employment solicitor and he says the employer is treading a very thin line. It could potentially be sex discrimination however it would be very difficult to prove in court.

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 09/04/2011 20:32

Elephants - no, you can't say 'my partner deals with that', because then you are a shit mum and probably a feminist and they won't like you.
Believe me, telling them your partner is in charge of childcare will not win you friends among the misogynist dinosaur community.

laInfanta · 09/04/2011 20:34

Just say 'yes, it's absolutely fine, rock solid' whether it is or isn't. They shouldn't really be asking you, which means you don't have to tell the truth

SardineQueen · 09/04/2011 20:41

It's a stupid question anyway frankly.

It's not as if the female candidate is going to slap their hand to their forehead and say "Fuck me! I completely forgot about that! You're right, someone will need to look after the little buggers while I'm at work! Gawd I've right cocked that one up, sorry mate obviously I can't do this job, I'll get me coat"

Incidentally I have a job interview next week.... So what is the correct answer?

SardineQueen · 09/04/2011 20:42

Unruly if you don't get the job offer the feedback.

If you do get the job, wait until you have your feet under the desk and have wowed them all with your fantasticness then give the feedback straight to HR.

IMO.

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 09/04/2011 20:45

I agree with LaInfanta. Tell them your childcare is fabulous.

SardineQueen · 09/04/2011 20:50

"Oh yes it's all fine, no worries there"

If they probe further then I slap 'em with a writ, right? (Like as if anyone except people applying for lawyer jobs ever sue for this stuff!)

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 09/04/2011 20:53

do you think what they're basically doing is making sure that you can't complain or plead childcare problems if they ask you to work long hours in the future? 'It was all discussed at interview, she said she would not have a problem arranging childcare'.

SardineQueen · 09/04/2011 20:56

I think that it would mean that if there was ever an emergency they could boot you straight out as you'd "lied" at the interview, I guess.

Am amazed that anyone thinks that men get asked this question, frankly!

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 09/04/2011 21:05

whereas the men won't have been asked so if there is an emergency they CAN'T be got rid of for lying. Which fits in with the feeling many women have that men get brownie points at work for visibly being parents (the photo of the kids on the desk, making a big deal of not being able to attend a meeting because of school pickup) while women have to hide it lest they look flakey and uncommitted. (And there is research described in Fine's Delusions of Gender that shows that women with children ARE perceived as less committed than childless women.)
so even if you get the job the discrimination still matters.

WoTmania · 09/04/2011 21:31

Dh got asked what my occupation was once they had asked if he had DC once he said SAHM no more Qs. I was livid when I found out. But at least (hopefully, massive benefit of doubt here) they were assuming he might do childcare. They also seem to be quite flexible about not taking overtime giving holidays for hospital appointments etc.

slug · 09/04/2011 22:20

I once got asked that in an interview. To be honest at that point I had already decided I wouldn't take the job if offered. I said something like "Gosh, you've put me in a difficult position here. Can I ask if you've asked the male candidates this before I answer? I wouldn't want to put you in the position of asking something that could be conscrued as discriminatory."

It took about ten seconds for them to process what I'd said. I spent the rest of the interview watching them squirm.

KatieMiddleton · 09/04/2011 22:36

I'm an HR person and it is never a good idea to ask that question. You ask about the job, not stuff outside of work or personal stuff.

eg. You can't ask for minimum height requirements because it could be indirect sex or race discrimination. Hence the removal of minimum height requirement for firefighters and police force but they have to be able to complete physical tasks to show competency (lifting loads, running etc).

When it comes to interviewing one does not ask about childcare arrangements. One asks about the job, for example if a candidate can work additional hours when required at short notice. Or if they can work a varied shift pattern.

The occupational status of a candidate's uterus is on no relevance to good employment practice and I am a bit shocked anyone would think in 2011 it is!

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