Fairy stories

[Alunsmuma]

Reading my DS a bedtime story last i realised that fairy tales are a incredibly sexiest and b pretty darn cruel to anybody who is different. Witches are always old and ugly, and the prince only ever marries a beautiful princess, usually being her knight in shiny armour in the process, does anybody else feel funny reading these stories to thier children?

Hi. I know fairy stories are sexist etc. However, I just remember how much I loved fairy stories when I was a little girl and used to read them over and over again. However, I am now a 51 year old feminist and have been so ever since I can remember. I do appreciate that these days it is a bit different. There are so many celebrities influencing young girls and they seem to live the fairy tale lifestyle, they werent around when I was small so maybe the fact that it was not real was more obvious. So, to be honest I am not sure how I would feel about reading them these days.

There have been a couple of threads about this previously I think. The older versions of stories are often quite different, contrary to what we think about "the old days" it was the Victorians and then the Disney era that often made them more sexist/ageist/lookist etc.

I mean, most of the old British stories I have read are about giants, brownies (the helpful fairy type things), mermaids, magic animals - loads of stuff. There is usually a young protagonist but hardly any knights etc.

If you want to read some stories where the girls do the rescuing, I recommend The Black Bull of Norroway, and Tam Lin.

Of course you can always change "wicked witch" to wiched wizard, or evil sorceror, or nasty giraffe :o or anything else, to mix things up a bit. At least Harry Potter has opened up a whole world of wicken wizards to choose from.

jeez "wicked WIZARD" x 2, I meant.

you can always embellish the stories with your own observations and asides, explaining that it's all a bit fanciful and real life isn't at all like the stories.

I like stories like the Elves and the Shoemaker, rather than Princess so-and-so is rescued by Prince such-and-such and they all lived happily ever after.

A decent compendium of Hans Christian Andersen or the BRothers Grimm fairy tales should give you more choice (although some of them are pretty bloody nasty!)

You might be interested in these parody clips (I will mention these on every relevant thread on mumsnet until everyone has seen them! )

I agree the popular, Disney-fied stories are definitely very sexist - women as poor damsels who need saving. There are some rather good traditional stories about though. A while back there was a series of traditional fairy stories given away free with the Guardian and they're pretty gruesome but great.

what about thumbelina. Gets taken by a toad to give to her son in marriage, escapes then gets "looked after" by a field mouse who essentially pimps her to his friend the mole.

I do rather like the latest Disney take on Rapunzel though - admittedly it has the usual child abuse line but the heroine is a bit more self-sufficient when she gets going and the hero is a bit of an anti-hero to start with.

But that's an aside. Go back to the traditional ones. :)

msrisotto - LOVE those clips!

We should really try to rehabilitate some of the older tales that Elephants describes. The Grimms fucked fairytales right up. There are lots about. Angela Carter edited two collections for Virago.

If unrulysun is thinking of "The Bloody Chamber", then I'd suggest that's a book for you to read tomget you thinking about fairy tales in a different light (not suitable for DDs until the teen years IMHO).

You might want to complement the usual run of fairy tale books with some less traditional retellings: Little Red had a boy in the Little Red Riding Hood role (and is beautifully illustrated), Ella's Big Chance has (Cinder)ella rejecting the prince in favour of Buttons, and then there's a whole series of Serious Silly Tales (eg Snow White and the Three Aliens).

thanks for the clips msrisotto - I will be using them in one of my english classes soon!

Yay! Spreading the word! They're good because they're funny.

Meditrina I actually meant two collections she edited. I love The Bloody Chamber but IMO they are too literary to be fairytales. And I agree not for children! :)

Thanks, unrulysun, I didn't know about those and will have a look for them!

Iirc it's the Virago Book of Fairytales and a second volume imaginitively titled The Second Virago Book of Fairytales:)

Though some of those are very rude too.

There is a fairy tale that I can't find, but remember, about a man who finds a group of girls bathing, and realises that they are swan-maidens who have stripped off their feathered skins and left them by the lakeside. He steals one of the skins and the girl is unable to transform back into a swan. She agrees to marry him, but the proviso is that if he ever beats her (I think it's phrased that if he ever touches her with iron) then she will turn back into a swan and leave him forever. Sure enough after years of marriage (which she is trapped in, obviously) he eventually beats her with some kind of metal tool and she leaves him behind forever.

Seemed to be a good anti-DV story, would love to read it if anyone knows what it is?

bloody hell

just reading the reviews on imdb for Disney's "beauty & the beast"

www.imdb.com/title/tt0101414/usercomments?filter=hate

apparently it's "anti-male" and "belle is a feminist"

wtf? oh the poor menz

interesting essay about B&tB here:
www.ripleyonline.com/Under%20Discussion/Hostages%20in%20the%20Rose%20Garden.htm

right, meant to be planning a lesson not reading....

E & M In many tales the husband doesn't beat her, he accidently lets a horse bridle touch her, with the iron bit.
Iron is anathema to all fairies, so his carelessness loses him his partner.
There are numerous versions of the tale, in Scotland she's a selkie and in Ireland she's usually a swan maiden.
I'll have a look if you like.

This book is a great collection of politically correct versions of the same stories - very funny :-)

I normally swap all genders in the books I read DD. Admittedly she can't understand what I say yet, but this issue has been intriguing me.

DH has also become aware of these things which is good as he's the SAHD. He's also started pointing out all the sexist issues on TV, so am hopeful he will help steer and explain DD these issues as she grows up.

witchwithallthetrimmings Wed 23-Mar-11 22:24:11

"what about thumbelina. Gets taken by a toad to give to her son in marriage, escapes then gets "looked after" by a field mouse who essentially pimps her to his friend the mole."

I am glad you mention this one. I had never heard that story as a child but it made me feel very uneasy when I watched it with DD1. I did not exactly realise why before I read your "version".