Help needed please!

[UmYeahLikeTotally]

ARRRGH

Have just had a fucking pointless conversation with my Mum about lapdancing clubs.

My OH has been asked to a stag night which will include a visit to a lapdancing club. Neither OH or I are keen for obvious reasons, but it's awkward for him to stand up and say no when there are so many other people going/it's been planned/everyone else wants to go etc.

Anyway, I just mentioned it to my Mum in passing. Not in an emotional angry/sad way, just a "this is a shit situation" kind of thing.

She said "don't worry, he won't cheat or anything like that".
I replied that it wasn't cheating that was the issue, but the whole morality of lapdancing.

When I said this, I could practically hear her rolling her eyes; she started spouting off stuff like:

women choose to do it

It's good for women to be able to have a job that is flexible for childcare(i.e. nighttime work) !!

Some women like to have the attention from men / enjoy it

it's harmless fun

etc etc etc. (Bingo anyone??)

I was so caught off guard that all I could manage in reply was a feeble "so some women like it....what about all the others who don't? Do we just forget about them? What about the ones who are forced into doing things they don't want to?"

At this, she promptly told me that I "don't always have to think so deeply into everything" and changed the subject.

HELP!!!!!!!!! Does anyone have any facts/figures/advice, so I could go back and succinctly tell her that she is talking bollocks?!!!

How tedious.

Have a search for JessInAvalon's posts - she's done loads of work in this area.

And once you've read the threads, get your OH to read them and, if still wants to go, ask him if his social awkwardness trumps supporting such an industry.

It's not OH I've got a problem with. We are trying to think of ways which he could bypass going to the club/trying to convince the others not to go without completely ruining the groom's day.

It's so shit that men like OH are expected to conform to the "lads night out" mentality when they actually don't want to participate in that aspect of it.

I think he is just going to have to say that he will go for the rest of the day, just not the lapdancing part.

Your OH should simply not go to that part of the evening. He will be mildly teased and ribbed about it, but his principled stand may make a few of the other men think.

Yup, think that is what probably will happen.

Anyone got any ammo which I can fire at my mum about this subject??

I definitely think that UYLT's husband shouldn't go to this club, but he doesn't have to make the maximum trouble about it. Just say "This isn't the kind of thing I feel comfortable getting involved with." Save the moral issues for later, and then only if he's pushed on it. It could end up being a situation where his friends think he's insulting them. Which maybe they deserve, but probably he wants to stay friends with them.

As for Mum, I don't know. How about "It really should be beneath women's dignity to put on this kind of show, and beneath men's dignity to watch it"? Probably not on the right note there.

This article from the Times by a former lapdancer:

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7025792.ece

More testimonies (PDF downloads)on the OBJECT website:

www.object.org.uk/lapdancing-testimonies

Ring her up and pretend you've got a job at one and see how pleased she is.
Or just push her on that: 'How would you feel if I was working at one? Honestly? And if some of dad's mates went along one night and I had to do a dance for '

Some more arguments:

• lapdancing encourages men to see women as sex objects rather than people

• it peddles the myth that women are perpetually sexually available

• many lapdancing establishments are 'respectable' fronts for prostitution

• in areas where lots of lapdancing or strip clubs open, the incidence of crimes of sexual violence increases (which proves points 1 & 2)

• it's essentially men buying sex. Would your mother be fine with your OH visiting a prostitute on a stag night?

Thanks everyone.

I used a lot of your suggestions when I plucked up the courage to call her back. To her credit, she did agree that I know more about the subject than she does, and is going to have a think about what I said and maybe read about it. She also apologised for upsetting me, so a positive I suppose. Thanks again for the links/facts.

On another note, a. fucking wierdo man just rubbed up against me in the crowd at the train station, saying loudly in my ear "I'm your tsunami(?!), do you want to be my tsunami?"
I think he was referring to the surge of people all at once being like a tidal wave. But even so, he was still faarrr to close for comfort and right up in my face. Everyone else managed to walk along without invading my space. Fucking nob.

And they say there is no longer any need for feminism!!!

Thanks everyone.

I used a lot of your suggestions when I plucked up the courage to call her back. To her credit, she did agree that I know more about the subject than she does, and is going to have a think about what I said and maybe read about it. She also apologised for upsetting me, so a positive I suppose. Thanks again for the links/facts.

On another note, a. fucking wierdo man just rubbed up against me in the crowd at the train station, saying loudly in my ear "I'm your tsunami(?!), do you want to be my tsunami?"
I think he was referring to the surge of people all at once being like a tidal wave. But even so, he was still faarrr to close for comfort and right up in my face. Everyone else managed to walk along without invading my space. Fucking nob.

And they say there is no longer any need for feminism!!!

Oops sorry blackberry double posting again!

Oops sorry blackberry double posting again!

Sorry to hear about Mr Tsunami. Sounds like a fucking idiot.