International Women's Day: how can we make the world more equal?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello campers,

As lots of you will already know, Tuesday March 8 is International Women's Day. MNHQ has been working with the EQUALS coalition this year, and they've asked us to ask you to suggest small ways in which you think we could all work to make men and women more equal, whether locally, nationally or globally.

Examples would be: go and support your local woman's football team; write to a television station to ask why women presenters are 20 years younger than their male counterparts; or make a donation to an organisation that supports women in developing countries. (If you're feeling extrovert, you could also consider organising an EQUALS soul train in your area this coming Friday.)

Your contributions might end up on the EQUALS blog.

Thanks,

MNHQ x

Not sure why SurreyDad is being given such a hard time. I think he's absolutely right that it needs to be as acceptable for men to aspire to be more like women, as much as women to aspire to be more like men. This isn't about more rights for the menz, it's about making it easier to women to achieve equality by making the changes from both ends, so that they meet in the middle, rather than women doing all the struggling in one direction.

SurreyDad's points could be better though, like this:

1. Men are called 'Mrs' too when they get married, or they can keep the generic 'Mr'.

2. Parental leave rather than maternity leave, divided as the couple decides.

3. "The ability to apply for a passport for my child without having to prove I have parental responsibilty, unlike a female parent who automatically has parental responsibility" (that ones ok.)

4. "I would like the NHS to invite me to pre and post natal classes, as well as my child's other parent" ..I think the classes relate to 'being pregnant' and 'giving birth' which is (up to now) just women, but I agree its good you find out about it.

5. "I would like to get regular visits or checkups to the GP like women do, so that I can get to know how the system works so that when I get ill I know what to do."
   you really want a smear test?
   I think we all find out about the NHS the same way.

6. (delete or show evidence)

7. I want it to be socially acceptable for a man to have a choice to be a house husband or work, same as it is socially acceptable for a woman to; ok :)

8. ?

9. Men need to do housework, and to develop (and be encouraged in) the skills of empathy, listening, caring (typically expected of women).

How can we make the world more equal?

• fight the good fight :) challenge sexism wherever you see it.

• support other women to challenge sexism

• work together to achieve equality.

Mumsnet has excellent examples of this, in everyday life and through campaigns, writing to politicians, TV executives, advertising folk, etc. Hurray!

Annie, I found surreydad's post difficult to read because it was dripping with entitlement and ignorance and "what about the menz" on a thread that supposed to be about women.

For example, masculinity and femininity have both been invented by the patriarchy. Femininity (just like foot-binding in China) is something that is pushed onto women, a requirement of patriarchy, in order to deem them "marriageable" or "spouseworthy" . Girls have to be trained in femininity (by their mothers or society) from an early age otherwise they're just not going to be feminine, which will make it hard for them to find a spouse under patriarchy. Males require femininity in their partner and the degree of femininity depends on the man and the culture.

So his idea that men have to become more feminine is at odds with feminism. Unbeknown to him, what he's actually talking about is the stereotypical socially-conditioned traits drummed into females from birth.

Women should not, of course, aspire to be masculine otherwise we'll hurry the world to its demise even quicker than it's already headed.

What we can do is start treating women like human beings and return their rights to them so they can make decisions about society and the environment and wars just like men can. ANd something tells me that women won't be as keen to bomb other women, or rape the environment in the way the males who dominate the world do. But again, that's got nothing to do with femininity.

And as for his other points. at the idea that the medical system is hostile to men . OMG. Read a book, surreydad. FInd out just how hostile patriarchal medicine has been and continues to be to women

I thought a good deal of SD's mystification about pregnancy and childbirth could be rectified by reading books, watching youtube, finding parenting classes for himself, etc (or asking a woman). A lot of women don't depend only on whatever is spoonfed to them by the NHS about these matters -- they ask others, they read, they google or whatever.

Yes, women and men have things foisted on them. Women on mumsnet even suggest there is something wrong because I happen to be a capitalist woman and a woman who likes mnoey, power and is ambitious as if those were traits only men have. Taht is not so. It's sexist to assume we all want to don aprons and have short working hours just as it is sexist to assume all men want the burden of main breadwinner. Plenty don't.

It's up to women to ensure they don't accept sexism at home even for one day and challenege sexist comments and up to men too to do this in reverse - before everyone marries they ought (as I did in the 80s) to talk about children and childcare and sound out each other's attitudes. Is this a sexist potential man or woman I see before me. Does she baulk if you say when dating here - yes I'd quite like 4 or 5 years at home when the babies are small, does she see me as a meal ticket and to challenge those attitudes.

Xenia I see nothing wrong with what you want, but you tend to push it as the only way and that women are failing if they don't do what you have done. I admire you, but the reality is that we can't all (men and women) have what you have got for all sorts of reasons. (okay you could argue that shouldn't stop you trying but thats a different argument). I would accept that women generally undervalue themselves and this is part of the problem, becuase believe me, if you don't value yourself you can be damn sure no-one else will either!

I haven't read through all the pages, but I believe equality will only ever happen when men can become pregnant as well as women.

Well that's not going to happen, or if it does not for a long, long time in a Brave New World kind of way. Then it'll be equality for Deltas!

So you don't think equality is possible?

We are all different but all equal unde the law and can seek to ensure more equality at home. It is possible to do as i did - work until you go into labour and take two weeks' holiday in which to give bith and go back full time and still breastfeed for over a year. Plenty of people around the world choose to do that.

Anotehr one is we will be equal when people stop criticising people like Dati in France and Palin in the US because they go back to work as quickly as a man after birth. There's another inequality - the opprobrium against mothers. Woman as whipping boy ever since we were blamed for tempting Adam in the garden of Eden. Woman as only madonna or whore. In fact we are people.

We are moving terribly well towards more equality in the West and I hope the Arab Spring will also be a good chance for women in the East too whom I hope was can support.

Women will gain more equality when they earn more than men. We are stating to. Women do better than men in all exams on average. Women under 26 earn more than men in the UK and more women are millionaires than men under 40 in the UK. Huge steps have been made. Every women who goes for flexible working sticks a knife into her daughters adn other women though so don't assume the private is not political. It very much is.

Some men (not all !) stop feeling female empowerment means that they lose out somehow and feel the need to make fun of it

Childcare is shared equally between the genders

Housework is seen as work and not women's work

Xenia, going back to work soon after giving birth is about Reason Number 647 on the list of things Sarah Palin has been criticised for. It's way behind her views on gun control for instance, and even those views are way behind her alarming 'I can see Russia from my living room' blather.

I see where you're going with the rest of your post though. However, mat leave is not much of a holiday. I would personally favour an attitude to family policy similar to the Scandinavians' -- a year off to split/share between the parents as they wish. This gives everyone who wants to the chance to contribute in whatever way works for them. I would like to see flexible working acceptable for men.

While girls have outstripped boys in academic achievement for years, and are making strides in income parity, there remain the depressing statistics on rape reporting, prosecution and conviction, representing an undertow of a serious nature.

I don't believe it....yet another thread that has the rape card thrown in when the main arguement has been shown to be flawed.

Grow up and stop devaluing rape with trivial points scoring.

If you don't know what devaluing something is then further discourse is pointless.

I don't have the time now (kids/school)

I think my point art rape was how do you measure progress for women? Which is related to the question can we assume we're equal when we are more likely to be raped than men are, and when rape is a crime that is highly likely to be swept under the rug.

I think rape is the instance when women come face to face with the realities of our society, and those realities have little to do with income or socio economic status or educational attainment.

Rape demonstrates that the personal is highly political.

I don't know if there is any point saying this to Xenia because she's had it said to her so many times, but most women don't want to go back to work 2 weeks after giving birth. Furthermore, many would simply not be physically able to - about 25% of women now have caesarean sections which like any major surgery, requires at least 6 weeks recovery. It took me about 3 months to establish breast feeding and most mothers want to enjoy that lovely cocooned time with their baby.

We'll have equality when that time is seen as worthwhile and as worth paying for, as working in the cash economy.

Oh don't be stupid, of course rape is about gender.

What other crime has a conviction rate of 5% and what other crime has so many mysogynist victim blaming myths around it?

Lawyers aren't that good - burglary or fraud doesn't have a 94% non-conviction rate.

Jjkm, all the flaws in the legal system you mention are based on ideas about gender. The reason the system is the way it is and why it will not be fixed easily is because of a gross imbalance in power along gender lines.

Men don't have any problem at all with accepting jobs that they are offered because they are male.

In fact, they have no idea that that's why they were offered them. They assume it's purely because of their abilities. And everyone else assumes the same thing.