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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

can i be a feminist and a sahm?

63 replies

carriedababi · 03/03/2011 23:50

i think i am a feminist, i care deeply about all women, want to help them and make things better for all of us

i am a sahm to my dd age 3
which i enjoy and am happy about
i am happily married to dh.

OP posts:

sakura · 05/03/2011 07:34

I think that some mothers believe that their way of doing things is more valid than other mothers' but that's not the main point here I don't think because that could just as easily be said for private/public schools, hot-housing/free-range etc

Patriarchy has persistently separated children from their mothers by force [boarding schools, factory work, forced adoptions etc] and at the same time has forced women out of politics, medicine and business into the private sphere, creating a dichotomy, to the point where today women are grateful to either not be with their babies or be with their babies but have nothing else.

sakura · 05/03/2011 07:37

when I say patriarchy has forced women out of medicine, politics and business I mean they have actively done this. I've been reading about the millions of women who were killed in the witch-burnings and how it was women who had knowledge of herbs and healing who were targeted, especially midwives. This was medicine as society knew it, before patriarchy took it over.
I'm saying that the public/private sphere dichotomy is fake , that having to "choose" between one or the other has been made up by the system to the benefit of men.

thumbwitch · 05/03/2011 07:37

I think I am still confused though Sakura - you're still not allowing for free choice in your picture, or not apparently anyway. I did work while I was also at home in the UK - that was my choice and I was lucky that my job allowed me to do it (being self-employed helps!) so I wasn't part of your dichotomy.

I do see what you're saying but I don't see that you're allowing for any middle ground in your scenario.

thumbwitch · 05/03/2011 07:39

sorry, crossposted there.

sakura · 05/03/2011 08:22

I think the concept of free choice is an ideology that's been touted a lot in the past twenty years, but I think this individualist POV is an illusion. There are constrained choices.

prettywhiteguitar · 05/03/2011 08:35

I feel that being a sahm is a feminist choice that I made for myself, my dp supports me and the family's choice and see's it as being an equal job.

You don't have to stay at home if you don't want to !

I worked from when ds was 6mths to 18mths, didn't earn much if thats what you mean by a constrained choice, also then yes it is a constrained choice by history's influence.

I still feel I have freedom by comparison to others living in much more morally/economically constrained societies. This I am quite grateful for.

In addition to staying at home I can paint, do occasional sessional work and part time work I missed out on when I was commited to a full time position.

Youllskimmer · 05/03/2011 08:56

I think as long as you are looking at it practically it's ok, as in:

You have a pension that is being paid into.
The housework etc is split fairly.
Skills are kept up so you can return to work.

Personally as a single parent I'd never want to be financially reliant on anyone, if I'd given up my career I'd have been stuffed now. As my children are at school I'd hate to be at home all day.

Grandhighpoohba · 05/03/2011 10:02

As a family, money needs to be earned, and the children need to be looked after. There are many ways of arranging things so that both are covered. If you and your partner, as equals, sat down and worked out a solution which suits you both, and in which you are both still equal, then fair enough, whether that means you are at home, or he is, or childcare is paid for.

The problems arise when staying at home is seen as the lesser of the roles. When people say a SAHM is dependant on her partner, it does not occur to them to think that her partner is dependant on her for childcare.

So, in a partnership of equals, staying at home is fine from a feminist viewpoint. However, assuming that you should, because you are female, is not. There are also issues with the way society is structured, as mentioned by others, which make it difficult for a couple to operate freely as equals, such as rights to time off and unequal pay. If a man can earn more, and a woman can legally take more time off at the beginning, this places outside pressures on the choices which are practical, pushing people into traditional roles they may not otherwise choose.

dittany · 05/03/2011 10:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

notenoughsocks · 05/03/2011 20:32

agree with sakura. it is a loong loong discussion... perhaps we will have it one day as is always helpful and thought provoking

Wikileeks · 05/03/2011 20:36

I am only a feminist when it suits me......

notenoughsocks · 05/03/2011 20:38

oooo - that is a provoactive statment. Wikileeks, can you clarify?

Wikileeks · 05/03/2011 20:42

Ohhhhh lets think...no,no I don't think I can... it would have to happen then I would come rushing back and tell you all.... but I do hold my husband to ransom for shoes and holidays.

notenoughsocks · 05/03/2011 20:57

Wikileeks, I admit that I have a half a bottle of wine inside me now so am not at my most articulate....

I do know though that there have been women who have (convincingly to my mind) argued that 'holding your husband to ransom for shoes and holidays' - or a better standard of living - is a feminist act in itself. I think they meant that you are fighting for a better standard of living using the powers which you have available to you in your position, as a low/unpaid worker, at that time.

[hmm - sounds very confused now I read it back. perhaps I will have to digest wine and get back to you if that is not clear....]

Wikileeks · 05/03/2011 20:59

Maybe it is all I know is I have seen some wedges I want and I have just tipped him the wink,those shoes shall be mine by close of trading tomorrow.....

Susiewho · 05/03/2011 21:04

I'm a feminist and I chose to give up paid work temporarily to look after DD until she starts school.

Yes - undoubtedly you can be a feminist and a SAHM. :)

notenoughsocks · 05/03/2011 21:10

I suppose, what I am thinking is: the thing is that if you are a SAHM and you 'work' by rasing kids and looking after a home, you shouldn't have to 'tip anybody the wink' for wedges or anything else. Your work is valuable. The problem is that it is not recogsnised as 'work'. It has a measurable economic worth, but is not paid. You should, as you work, be free to choose wedges or not without tipping anybody a wink or anything else.

[still not as clear as I would like...]

Youllskimmer · 05/03/2011 21:14

I think it's been the greatest achievement of the Patriarchy to perpetuate the belief that women should sacrifice their careers to look after the children therefore leaving men to pursue their own careers.

Women feel guilty if they work, guilty if they don't and it seems guilty if they work part-time. It is some achievement.

Wikileeks · 05/03/2011 21:16

I don't mind NES at all,I have been a little unfair,its he who begs me,and I shout ... wedges/weekend break/a cast iron pan if you please .... everything I do is for a laugh,I am not good with serious anything including this,I just want fun fun fun,now go enjoy your wine for some reason I am surfing kitchens and we don't even need one .

Susiewho · 05/03/2011 21:16

I don't see the link with being a SAHM and "looking after the home". When I think of SAHM I think of someone primarily concerned with looking after DC(s). Housework, household admin etc, etc is separate from that.

Perhaps this is the problem. Do people consider a SAHM to also be a housewife, with no input from partners?

Apologies if I've missed something. Tired tonight!

Wikileeks · 05/03/2011 21:17

Hmmm I also need to add that himself works from home and does the school run and most of the cooking,I am a lazy git xxxxxxxx

notenoughsocks · 05/03/2011 21:18

Just thought. The thing is that if I work a 40 odd (or more) hour week in any workplace I feel no need to 'tip my boss the wink' or anything else to get my paycheque. I have earned the money and it is mine to spend how I want. Why, I wonder, should it be different for SAHM??

PS - agree with youllskimmer - is some amazing achievement - even more impressive than just making women feel bad for working if they were married/had children.

Wikileeks · 05/03/2011 21:19

I feel queasy just reading the word 'work'

notenoughsocks · 05/03/2011 21:31

Suziewho, I know the link shouldn't be there but it does seem to be in real life, often. With kids, tiding up behind them is very difficult to avoid ime.

Wikileeks, out of genuine intrest (cos I could never bear to ask DP for anything much apart from his accpeance of his responsiblity towards our DS and the housework - but circumstnaces in this recession may force us to accpet whatever comes our way), how do you feel about that?

exoticfruits · 05/03/2011 21:37

Yes-why not?

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