Can men be feminists?

[thefinerthingsinlife]

I had a 'debate' with my sociology lecturer; she says that feminism is 'women for women' and I pointed out that' not the case and that men are feminist too.

She nor the class were convinced, please tell me i'm not the only person who thinks ofcourse men can be feminists too.

Of course men can be feminist. The confusion lies with the misunderstanding that Feminism is something women preach about to other women. What it really is, is a movement to further women's rights. Every sane thinking person should be for that.

Flamingo said the number of women who knowingly collude with the patriarchy the expression waiting for the crumbs from the patriarchal table springs to mind. Sadly this is the role so many women are socialised into which makes it easier for men to stay in power because they claim there are plenty of women who don't make a 'fuss'

BeenBeta - I'm not really sure what you're arguing about here? First you say you don't want an artificial label, then you talk about whether you have to be politically active to be a feminist...no one's said that here, so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at?

Do you just have the hump that there isn't a male equivalent of feminism and you think it's not very equal to be more worried about women's rights than men's?

Flamingo - no I am not concerned there isnt a male equivalent of feminism or that it's not equal to be more worried about women's rights than men.

It doesnt bother me whether anyone thinks I am a feminist or not. In fact, I would prefer not to label myself that way. I dont even have the hump.

The original question posed though was whether men can be feminist in response to an assertion by a female sociology lecturer that men cant be feminist. I posted on the thread because I thought it an interesting assertion from someone in her position.

What Proleworth said sounds right to me. "If being a feminist means acknowledging that women are an oppressed group and that something needs doing about it then of course men can be feminists."

It is self evidently obvious that there are a lot of men who are concerned about the rights of women along with concern for many other oppressed groups. The fact that we have Trevor Philips as head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission is a good thing in my view. It means that 'human rights' are no longer divided up into little boxes for women, black people, asian people, disabled people, etc. It is the broader concern and protection of the human rights of everyone which surely matters - not the label we put on each oppressed group.

I know that as a white middle class man I have a huge range of social privelleges - but to say I cant also be concerned about the rights of people because I am a man or white or able bodied is illogical. That is why I asked the (genuine) question. Do I have to go on marches and demonstrations and be very publicly active and above all else be a woman in order to somehow prove I am concerned about womens' rights?

I agree with thefinerthingsinlife. At best, the reponse of the sociology lecturer seems illogical and poorly thought out. Some might even say prejudiced.

I also prefer the pro-feminist label for men. Mainly as I just can't get away from the fact that they are privileged whether they agree with it or not.

I get the overwhelming sense that most people, including the sociology lecturer, believe that you have to be a woman to be a feminist and that all women should be feminists - regardless of what your views are on womens' rights. It's as simple as that.

It's like some people say 'I am a socialist' because they are on a low income in an insecure manual labouring job and then flatly refusing to believe anyone on a higher income in a professional job could possibly be a socialist because they seem to be privelleged.

Frankly, the idea that only women can be feminists is just what you'd expect from an academic.

I don't believe it's a view that many grassroots feminist activists would share. At least the ones I met seemed happy for me to be there

A more interesting question I think is whether feminism needs the support of men, and if so why.

I don't think it's just something from an academic. I have heard both views from a broad range of people. And you can see them here. And there are prominent feminists expressing both views, for well formulated reasons. It's not enough to dismiss those views. But for me, it's not very important and one of those things that detracts from getting on with the movement. If men want to be support feminism, great. But I think it's a case of accepting the label you're given, by different people in different circumstances, and accept that feminists don't all think the same, and that there will be contradictions. Or alternatively, make that the big deal that needs fighting, but then I would wonder why that should be the focus of anyone's energy, when there is so much more feminists and supporters of feminism can be doing.

PS Saying someone is a pro-feminist man doesn't mean they're not happy for you to be there. It just means they have a different understanding of the movement and associated terminology. Some feminists may well not want men there, but that isn't indicated by the use of the word pro-feminist man.

I think I support equalism really, and wouldn't mind being called an equalist. To me, eqaulism includes feminism and I am sure most feminists agree with all other forms of equality and human rights too.

Its just some feminists it seems want to exclude men from the feminist bit of equalism which ... erm .... isn't really what equalism is about.

Of course men can be feminists. My husband is living proof. He is active and has no problem doing what MrIC does in challenging sexism and objectification of women. Just to clarify it to others he wears one of the Fawcett THIS IS WHAT A FEMINIST LOOKS LIKE shirts! Funny though, he gets a totally different reaction when he tells people he is a feminist, they dont make fun of him, laugh or poo poo him in the same way as they do me! I wonder why that is.

I thought this thread was about the terminology rather than whether or not men can play a part.

So are men 'feminists' or are they 'pro-feminists'.

Both are playing a role within the movement.

I support lots of movements that involve an aspect of equality. However I would not want them to all be subsumed under a mish mash approach. Different movements need to define themselves and be clear about their focus. Bundling them all up obscures the issues.

I do not expect to play an active part in Southall Black Sisters for example. I support them, but I do not expect to be a Southall Black Sister as I am not black. But I think they need to exist to highlight the issues as they choose. I do not think they should have to be subsumed under the broader umbrella (be that feminist or more general human rights), as this would mean that the voices of those with privilege, including me, would dominate. I can support them, without expecting to be labeled as part of them.

Well folks, I wore my 'this is what a feminist looks like' t shirt into the office today & it went down a storm. At one point I was addressed as 'fellow feminist' (!)

So I have to say I feel vindicated in my choice of both dress & terminology

I have to admit, it is punchier than 'This is what a pro-feminist looks like' would be!