Can men be feminists?

[thefinerthingsinlife]

I had a 'debate' with my sociology lecturer; she says that feminism is 'women for women' and I pointed out that' not the case and that men are feminist too.

She nor the class were convinced, please tell me i'm not the only person who thinks ofcourse men can be feminists too.

I think it is a shame that your sociology lecturer said that.

I'll try and explain why it makes me feel so uncomfortable but it might be a bit incoherent!

To me it makes it sound like feminism is so specialised, or extreme, or just ridiculous, that of course a man would never subscribe to it. Like it's an exclusive club and you have to meet certain criteria to join.

Whereas I think that it is such an obvious thing that most people should be able to claim the label if they want it. To say "well you can come in but you can't" etc is just no good.

I also think we need all the help we can get!

Absolutely agree that men shouldn't be running the show though

x-posts with salt I never realised you were a man!

Wouldn't it be funny if all the posters on the feminism board turned out to be men!

I actually really dislike "pro-feminist". It makes women's oppression into a small and pathetic women's problem... it's like when men "help" with raising their children and doing their housework. Saying men are pro-feminist makes feminism into women's burden to fix. Of course, it mostly seems to be, but it shouldn't be!

Have another go.

The way I imagine your lecturer saying that men can't be feminists (and I may be off the mark) is sort of "no of course men can't be feminists as why would they want to be / why would they care / they'd never get it / it's not possible" which is a pretty damning thing to say about men, when the reality is that stacks of them can see that women get a shitty deal and face various problems and some actively want to change things.

I live for surprises SQ

But it's totally surprising how much my views have been affected.

Sardine she also believes that radical feminism is outdated and irrelevant. I find it hard to take her seriously.

rinabean I know what you mean about the term pro-feminist

I'm a feminist but I'm not original so I will echo the applause for Flamingo's post.

I think men - especially low income and non-white men - can be victims of the existing patriarchal system and I think liberating everyone from gender stereotypes is beneficial to both (all?) sexes.

Although I do think the movement should be led by women - just as the anti-racism movement should be led non-white leaders.

(I'm not entirely comfortable with that last sentence as written - I welcome challenges)

I want to know what Dittany thinks!

You must have seen that picture of Bill Bailey wearing a shirt with the slogan 'This is what a feminist looks like'?

That shirt makes a strong statement against sexism and I don't think it would have had the same impact if it had said 'pro-feminist' instead.

As far as men's role in feminism is concerned, I tend to agree that women should lead & make the decisions. Note however that the chair of OBJECT, the leading feminist organisation that has campaigned very effectively against sex object culture, is a bloke (Jeremy Coutinho)

What Zikes said. Although also what Dittany said.

I prefer pro-feminist. But I think it's something that's a diversion from the more important things so I don't really care.

Linking to the racism analogy, I can be a supporter of anti-racism campaigning, but I can't be at the front saying Black Power or doing the bus thing with Rosa Parks.

Dittany said: 'I'm interested in the fact that men think they get ought to get what they are called though, over feminist objections'

The trouble is, it's more complicated than that because some (female) feminists think we should call ourselves feminists to show solidarity.

I prefer 'feminist' but I wouldn't make an issue of it if it seemed problematic.

As for t shirts, my favourite is the UK Feminista one which is a big bold design, and also allows you to show your allegiance without having to say 'I am a...' whatever

"Mind you with "famous" male feminists on the internet who have actually made money from feminism"

Who!? Who!?

And it all just goes to show, flipping women can't decide about anything!!

Seriously, though, among the many things feminists disagree on, Dittany's right - it's not really one of the biggest issues, is it?

David - have you got a link to the UKFeminista t-shirt?

And I have never loved the 'This is what a feminist looks like' t-shirts, although I've admired the celebs who've donned it (naively?). I find myself thinking a lot about what I look like, and whether that explodes the myth about what feminists look like or compounds it...and then I think 'FFS! I'm just feeding into it all just thinking about it!'.

UK Feminista t shirt

ty

So I can still like David Mitchell and Bill Bailey, then?

I never thought Amp had much to say in the first place, but I think what he actually sold was some kind of link, not his whole blog; there was certainly quite a fuss over it at the time.

Hugo Schwyzer is a very interesting character (he has dual US and UK citizenship, by the way) because he did go through a very evil period of drugs and sex. It's as if he's a Christian preacher saying he can tell us about sin, because he knows it very well! And in fact Christianity, in a liberal form, is another of his concerns. He's an amazingly prolific writer.

hugoschwyzer.net/

One place Hugo Schwyzer writes is the Good Men Project, which can be worth a quick look:

goodmenproject.com/

Haven't read whole thread (am feigning the whole "work" thing), but my initial feeling is that yes men can be feminists. However someone calling themself a feminist doesn't make it so - and this is the case far far more so IMO when men are saying it than women.

I think some men claim to be feminists in order to have an effect (whether that be impressing women in order to sleep with them, or to excuse other sexist behaviour etc) rather than out of any heartfelt protest against the injustice of ingrained misgyny etc. This is clearly bullshit.

However men who walk the walk of feminism are more than welcome to call themselves feminist as far as I'm concerned. TBH I wish there were more of this kind. I'm lucky enough to know a few and really am glad of it - not in a doling-out-cookies way, but in a kind of "let me hold this close to my heart when I read shit stories in the news that some men are doing their bit too". way.