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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Fiction Book Club - Villette 9pm March 9th

128 replies

Unrulysun · 25/02/2011 12:21

Can we think of some questions to start us off too?

At the moment (p40) I'm interested in why Lucy tells us so little about herself and in that awful relationship between the child and the boy :(

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Unrulysun · 17/03/2011 18:17

Embrace Angela for she is truly wonderful. (I defy anyone not to enjoy Wise Children :) )

I guess the whole collection with special reference to the title story?

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JoanofArgos · 17/03/2011 18:52

Can't remember which one WC is.... but I have no fondness for AC! Having taught Bloody Chamber so many times to first year undergrads never helps though....

swallowedAfly · 17/03/2011 20:03

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swallowedAfly · 17/03/2011 20:06

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StewieGriffinsMom · 18/03/2011 10:50

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EngelbertFustianMcSlinkydog · 18/03/2011 13:01

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StewieGriffinsMom · 18/03/2011 13:07

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EngelbertFustianMcSlinkydog · 18/03/2011 13:14

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StewieGriffinsMom · 18/03/2011 13:33

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EngelbertFustianMcSlinkydog · 18/03/2011 13:46

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swallowedAfly · 19/03/2011 09:05

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swallowedAfly · 19/03/2011 09:08

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sakura · 19/03/2011 11:39

well after tsunami this week I missed the book club and I was really looking forward to it, I'd been making notes in the margins.

A few notes:

"he judged her as a woman, not as an artist: it was a branding judgement."

yes that line stood out and summed up quite well how women are viewed in the patriarchy. They are seen as their sex, above all, and any of their achievements, creative breakthroughs etc, will remain secondary to that.

I thought it was marvellous that LUcy Snowe went off on a real adventure to France by herself without knowing what her destiny held. That is more than what a lot of "liberated" women today do. For Bronte to think outside the box like that was really something. Lucy found herself a job by accident, and was promoted through her own hard work, so again, the fact that a character was created that had to rely on her wits like that was really ahead of her time. So many women capitulate to the patriarchy in the subtlest of ways and never end up going through with their "adventure".

M. PAul. I thought he was the campest character ever. I don't know what that says about Bronte's sexuality, or whether she was trying to portray Frenchmen (who are rather effeminate)

"Soit!" was his response, and, gathering his flowers in his arms, he flashed out of class.."

He's just so camp, I can't get over it, and his dramatic plays and petulancy.

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2011 11:56

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sakura · 19/03/2011 12:06

I reckon he was based on someone she knew. Gay men have always had a rough deal under the patriarchy. Bronte turned down marriage 3 times apparently, I wonder what her 4th choice, her husband, was like.

Just googled. She died nine months after they married due to pregnancy related problems (which is obviously why she turned down marriage until then). Then he (bless him) didn't remarry until nine years later, so he was obviously very fond of her.

StewieGriffinsMom · 19/03/2011 12:55

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sakura · 19/03/2011 13:14

just read most of the thread. I agree with you Unrulysun, about women's existence being so tiny and this was demonstrated by the way the women talked about the letter.

I always felt, growing up, that it was fairly reasonable for human beings to wonder about who they would marry, and to be preoccupied with this, and I was also under the impressionthat men and women were equally bothered about choosing a mate.
But men aren't, never have been. For men, women are fairly interchangeable. they might prefer this or that woman depending on their personal taste, but it's not the be all and end all if they don't get her.
BUt for a woman, it's vitally important that she gets the right man simply because of the power he will have over your life. I really noticed the way Paulina had been squashed into this perfect feminine frame all for the sake of... Dr Bretton. I found that when I watched the film Sayuri. All that beautifying, all that training.. for a bunch of oldish men Confused . Men have the romance and an entirely separate world independant of women.

StewieGriffinsMom · 19/03/2011 13:34

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JoanofArgos · 19/03/2011 14:48

M Paul is partly based on the Belgian headmaster Bronte met when she went on a long trip there with Emily - he was married and she adored him, he wrote to her twice a year afterwards and she ate her heart out for ages.

Cb was proposed to once by her publisher, and then the others were all Bell, who wore her down!

I think Paul is so camp because that's what CB thought Europeans were like! She's awfully xenophobic and anti-Catholic in Villette.

swallowedAfly · 19/03/2011 17:32

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StewieGriffinsMom · 19/03/2011 20:01

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TeiTetua · 20/03/2011 03:56

SGM--I think you mean the term feminism was invented in the 1890s! That's what Merriam-Webster says, anyway.

They also say "First Known Use of SUFFRAGETTE. 1906"

I'm away with the Brontes. I took Villette back to the library and got The Tenant of Wildfell Hall.

StewieGriffinsMom · 20/03/2011 07:36

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StewieGriffinsMom · 20/03/2011 07:39

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swallowedAfly · 20/03/2011 07:43

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