Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

'That' thread....

114 replies

Janos · 04/02/2011 19:19

You probably know which one I'm referring to.

I have found it very upsetting to read because I have been in an almost identical situation to the OP :(

I was raped by a so called friend - it happened several years ago. I won't go into the details because I find it too upsetting to talk about. Suffice to say it was a bloody horrible experience.

I have been so distressed by some of the attitudes on that thread on that thread, but also heartened (if thats the right word) to read the comments from Rhadegunde, Dittany, IngridBergman, Blinder and others (sorry if have missed anyone out).

I don't feel able to post on there but wanted to say a heartfelt thank you. I'm glad there are women like you out there.

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 04/02/2011 20:31

I also think it's reasonable for people to talk about how they have been in similar situations and been raped and were upset to read that people thought they were asking for it, without a load of people coming to put the boot in TBH.

There is already another thread for that.

Original poster
Janos · 04/02/2011 20:31

Sorry, that came across more abruptly than I intended.

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 04/02/2011 20:35

AFAIK Janos didn't even post on that thread so why is everyone having a go?

Original poster
Janos · 04/02/2011 20:37

Coleysworth

X-posted, it's ok :)

SQ - yes, that was awful. The red mist did descend a bit at that point. I shouldn't have read on, but you get drawn in don't you.

Also, a woman is being made responsible for a mans behaviour and told off/chastised for not reacting appropriately.

OP posts:
Rhadegunde · 04/02/2011 20:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Janos · 04/02/2011 20:44

I certainly didn't post SQ there, I just couldn't. Some people just delight in kikcing someone when they are down, you know?

I don't feel people are having a go, just expressing their opinions which is par for the course,

I wanted a space to chat about this and express my thoughts.

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 04/02/2011 20:50

I don't know I just think that when an OP is obviously wanting to talk about something like this, it's not the time to come in and tell them off.

I'm funny like that Smile

TBH I was somewhere in the middle on that thread - what happened to the OP - whether it was rape or not - who knows. I find it interesting that people won't believe that sometimes women can take a long time to "name" what happened to them - whether that will happen to the OP of that thread or not I have no idea. The reactions are interesting though.

It took me years to name what happened to me. When I told people about it (I told about two people straight afterwards) I didn't name it but I said what happened and they were totally disinterested. People don't know how to react. And so you don't bother telling anyone else. That's what happened to me anyway.

There have been some threads on here that I think have helped people recognise and come to terms with things that have happened to them. Without MN many of those women would never speak to anyone about it in their whole lives, and that's really bad.

Original poster
Janos · 04/02/2011 20:51

Yes Rhadegunde, I think there's a lot of truth in that - the fear response.

Rape is such a scary and ugly concept - it was something very serious that happened to other people, not me. It is frightening to think about.

OP posts:
Original poster
Janos · 04/02/2011 20:54

I appreciate what you are saying SQ and thank you :)

I agree, it took me a long time too - also that people don't know how to react.

OP posts:
LadyBiscuit · 04/02/2011 21:23

I think there's a lot in what Rhadegunde has said and that as someone said, there is a huge amount of wanting the victim to have been at fault because then it means it's less likely to happen to the disbelieving woman. One woman said to me 'well what did you expect? You said he could sleep over and even though you told him you did not want to have sex with you before you both went to bed, it was very difficult for him knowing you were there, asleep'.

WTF? Again, it's that 'all men are animals and it's up to us to control their lust because they are not responsible for their actions' shit.

Sisterly hugs to all those who have been there. I know how shit it is and how hard it is to verbalise. And when people insist on snatching away those words and rewriting it to suit their own view of the world, how bloody angry it makes you.

SardineQueen · 04/02/2011 21:23

I'm off to bed now anyway,

Night Janos Smile

SardineQueen · 04/02/2011 21:24

xposts, night to all Smile

Rhadegunde · 04/02/2011 21:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Janos · 04/02/2011 21:30

".. when people insist on snatching away those words and rewriting it to suit their own view of the world, how bloody angry it makes you."

That's just it LadyBiscuit.

Not just for me of course, but for anyone who's been there.

And don't get me started on men who come on those threads to give everyone the benefit of their opinion and then get mightily offended when everyone isn't falling over themselves to agree. It's so breathtakingly arrogant.

OP posts:
Original poster
Janos · 04/02/2011 21:30

Night SQ :)

OP posts:
ElephantsAndMiasmas · 04/02/2011 21:58

I'm so sorry that so many on here have been put through this by the men who did it, and then by the people who didn't listen or told them it was their own fault.

What struck me on that thread (didn't post) was that, for some people, the only real measure of whether a man understood that the woman has said no to sex, is whether or not he stops what he's doing. If he carries on doing it, then he hasn't heard/understood, as simple as that. If you politely explained/moved away/tried to get dressed/pushed him off/said no but he carries on, the fault most certainly lies with you for not making yourself clear enough.

Some people seem to have no concept that a man can hear, understand and still continue with his rape or assault, apparently.

Coleysworth · 04/02/2011 22:11

Agree, Elephants. I've just been clumsily trying to make a similar point on 'that' thread Confused

HerBeX · 04/02/2011 22:12

I think an awful lot of women simply don't want to face up to how appallingly badly some men are prepared to treat some women, given the chance E&M.

It's scarey. Because then it dawns on them that if it's that common, then maybe their father, their brother, their DH, their DS, their male friends and colleagues, may also have behaved that badly. And they don't want to believe that they behaved that badly because they felt entitled to, so they choose to believe that they must have behaved that badly because they didn't realise they were being bad. It's much easier that way.

Original poster
Janos · 04/02/2011 22:29

Thank you.

I think that's one of the things that makes me so angry. Of course these men realise - they do it because they feel entitled and because they want to. And also, because they know they'll most likely get away with it, or even more sickeningly, be praised for it.

I told my my 'friend' I didn't want to twice..his reaction was, 'well, I do'. And that was that, apparently.

OP posts:
ElephantsAndMiasmas · 04/02/2011 22:29

I don't know if that's it, HerBeX, I think it's probably more to do with people's personal experiences than generalising it out to family members etc.

What I don't understand is the kind of doublethink that allows:

a) men are so dangerous/unable to stop themselves/out of control that you shouldn't share a room/house/coffee/stroll with one without expecting him to attack you, and if he does, it's your fault

and

b) he only did it because he didn't hear you/you didn't say it properly/you didn't say it in the right tone of voice/he was whistling and looking out of the window rather than at your terrified face. If he had noticed your distress, he would have stopped.

I mean, either men in general are dangerous beasts or they're considerate gentle souls who would never dream of hurting on purpose. But surely not both?

HerBeX · 04/02/2011 22:41

E&M, I think some people who have actually been raped, also take the same view as the bog standard rape apologists.

Because they don't want to face up to what's happened to them either. It is horribly painful to do, it makes you feel disempowered and helpless and vulnerable and frightened. Of course they don't want to feel like that, far easier to pretend it was just a bit of bad sex, or a misunderstanding, or something that wouldn't have happened if only they'd done something differently - that way, they can retain the illusion of control.

Sop that's why I'm not sure it's just about personal experience tbh.

dittany · 04/02/2011 22:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HerBeX · 04/02/2011 23:10

That thread looks awful, glad I haven't got involved in it tbh

I just saw the last few posts just now, with an assertion that women need to show they don't want sex in order not to be raped.

WTF?

I just can't believe it, I'm so shocked but I simply can't bear to trawl through all the shit to find the context and reply.

msrisotto · 04/02/2011 23:15

HerBeX - Don't fgs read back through that thread. It haunted me a bit last night. Comments MUCH worse than now.

Original poster
Janos · 04/02/2011 23:16

Dittany, I thought a lot of the comments directed to you on that thread were incredibly nasty and you dealt with them very well. I know it's just a forum etc but I really would have been in tears at some of the things on there, they were so vicious.

I find it really distressing that people are so quick to jump in and blame the victim.

OP posts: