Dittany - would be interested in your (and other's) opinion of this...

[FlamingoBingo]

Are women our own worst enemy?

I read it thinking that I agree, but then I remembered how you retaliate on here when you pick up on the notion that women are being attacked. What do you think of the article? Women-bashing? Or right?

I think it is huge denial isn't it? If they admit that they're kowtowing, it's even more humiliating than being humiliated in the first place, IYSWIM. They have massive emotional investment in not recognising their own oppression and their own collusion in their own oppression.

If you've spent the vast majority of your life (or have been "lucky" enough by virtue of nature) cultivating those things that are good patriarchal currency, then I can understand why one might feel like there is a lot to lose via feminism and why collaboration would seem logical. I would have thought that the most effective tactic in that case would be to encourage as many women as possible to become feminists because then you reduce your own competition, but there you go.

That's a good point, notjustapotforsoup.

Yes, that's what I meant herBex, I'm not justifying it in any way SaF, just trying do understand something that is incomprehensible to me.

it's just a very common phenomenon that people will put up with all sorts of oppression if they've got a dog beneath them to kick and feel power over.

yes that's true.

yes, the further up the classes you go, the more "benevolent" a man can afford to be with his wife, helping out with the housework and what have you. (Men whose wives earn more than them do less housework than men whose wives are SAHMs.)

Not that middle and upper class men can't be nasty bastards...it's just that they don't particularly need an dog to kick, because they're already so powerful

Also, though, there's the illusion that you'll get better treatment if you collaborate, whether that's subconcious or conscious. I wonder, for some women, if it's a case of 'well I don't want to be a feminist because then I'll get called a 'dyke'/'manhater'/all other manner of misogynist names that are far more unpleasant than your average non-feminist woman experiences'.

I love you when you're ranty :)

Flamingo - YES of course that is what puts many people off. If some women are "collaborators" then many many more are the equivalent of civilians in an occupied country. Only a few are going to want to take the risks of being in the Resistance, even if only in a metaphorical sense.

I mean, I often hear "I'm not a feminist but..." statements, as if the first part of the phrase is the lucky charm to ward off accusations of being an agitator.

You really can't believe all this nonsense?

Not only are you blaming Men but classing other Women as "Collaborators" and civilians.

But whatever...it's an interesting if naive read.

It's a situation unlike many a "Elo Elo" plot at it's satirical best.

Yes it's silly women's nonsense, beneath your lofty dignity Dadaz.

Privilege, thy name is Dadaz.

I dislike the mention about women in the workplace doing more. The representation of women on FTSE company boards is atrocious.

Women like men do need to work, and honestly complaining about sexism, whether you are female or male does not actually get you anywhere, unless you are financially well off to go without a job and mount a legal defence.

This govt is bringing in fees to lodge tribunals, this will make it more difficult for discrimination claims to be heard.

Does anyone know anyone in a workplace who has complained about sexism and not suffered adverse consequences? I don't???

(Nice work MNHQ)